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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 26, 2019 11:55:50 GMT -5
Sorry, he’ll be playing everywhere. What a shame for a team to have such depth. We’ll see. He better get 500 PAs, but I don’t see how that’s going to happen unless there’s an injury or two. Dansby could always be used as a super sub. He’s no Charlie Culberson, but he’s athletic enough to move around. I wouldn’t bitch about it from the start because I imagine the bulk of his ABs are gonna be in the 2nd half.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 26, 2019 11:56:56 GMT -5
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 26, 2019 12:01:37 GMT -5
I bet they both wind up with hot women, though.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 26, 2019 12:48:45 GMT -5
We’ll see. He better get 500 PAs, but I don’t see how that’s going to happen unless there’s an injury or two. Dansby could always be used as a super sub. He’s no Charlie Culberson, but he’s athletic enough to move around. I wouldn’t bitch about it from the start because I imagine the bulk of his ABs are gonna be in the 2nd half. Putting an inferior team on the field is always bitchworthy at any point.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 26, 2019 13:00:39 GMT -5
I wouldn’t bitch about it from the start because I imagine the bulk of his ABs are gonna be in the 2nd half. Putting an inferior team on the field is always bitchworthy at any point. It depends on what you value, I suppose. It's gonna be hard to argue that Camargo is better than JD, and it's gonna be hard to argue that Camargo's offensive value is better than Swanson's defensive value; which the Braves have repeatedly claimed is important to them. If the Braves value Swanson's defense more than Camargo's offense, one could claim that the Braves think they're putting the best team on the field.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 26, 2019 13:22:02 GMT -5
Putting an inferior team on the field is always bitchworthy at any point. It depends on what you value, I suppose. It's gonna be hard to argue that Camargo is better than JD, and it's gonna be hard to argue that Camargo's offensive value is better than Swanson's defensive value; which the Braves have repeatedly claimed is important to them. If the Braves value Swanson's defense more than Camargo's offense, one could claim that the Braves think they're putting the best team on the field. It's also hard to argue that you don't somehow have an inferior team on the field anytime you have a guy sitting on the bench who had the 52nd highest WAR in all of baseball last year.
Camargo did beat Donaldson last year by a full 2 WAR. Josh was injured of course, but that does count and could happen again this year, it'se certainly not out of the question.
And I would argue with one hand tied behind my back and one eye closed that Camargo's offense and defense combined is better than Dansby's defense.
I recall you championing an idea early this offseason that we needed to focus more on offense and less of defense.
We'll see how it goes. There's no sense in arguing over things we can't control, I'm just venting. The Markakis signing really put a burr in my saddle--I think Camargo deserved at minimum to be playing RF, and instead we've signed a guy that I think makes us lesser of a team to play out there again. That's where my gripe really lays at this point.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 26, 2019 13:27:07 GMT -5
How about some good old backwoods Georgia inbreeding? Of course there's always the question which is uglier, regular Colby Rasmus or Amish Colby Rasmus?
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 26, 2019 14:09:09 GMT -5
It depends on what you value, I suppose. It's gonna be hard to argue that Camargo is better than JD, and it's gonna be hard to argue that Camargo's offensive value is better than Swanson's defensive value; which the Braves have repeatedly claimed is important to them. If the Braves value Swanson's defense more than Camargo's offense, one could claim that the Braves think they're putting the best team on the field. It's also hard to argue that you don't somehow have an inferior team on the field anytime you have a guy sitting on the bench who had the 52nd highest WAR in all of baseball last year.
Camargo did beat Donaldson last year by a full 2 WAR. Josh was injured of course, but that does count and could happen again this year, it'se certainly not out of the question.
And I would argue with one hand tied behind my back and one eye closed that Camargo's offense and defense combined is better than Dansby's defense.
I recall you championing an idea early this offseason that we needed to focus more on offense and less of defense.
We'll see how it goes. There's no sense in arguing over things we can't control, I'm just venting. The Markakis signing really put a burr in my saddle--I think Camargo deserved at minimum to be playing RF, and instead we've signed a guy that I think makes us lesser of a team to play out there again. That's where my gripe really lays at this point. And I believe the Braves did that by upgrading Camargo with JD. The issue is you seem to think that Camargo and Swanson are equally capable shortstops, and they aren’t. I didn’t argue that the Braves should dismiss defensive value, in favor of offensive value. I argued that the Braves could stand to lose some defensive value, in favor of some offensive value. I wouldn’t have expected Camargo to be the sacrificial lamb, but here we are. If you held my feet to the fire, I’d still maintain that the Braves could replace defensive with offensive value, but I’d add the caveat that CF and SS are two of the last positions you’d want to do that, because their defensive value is more important than all other positions.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 26, 2019 19:11:48 GMT -5
It's also hard to argue that you don't somehow have an inferior team on the field anytime you have a guy sitting on the bench who had the 52nd highest WAR in all of baseball last year.
Camargo did beat Donaldson last year by a full 2 WAR. Josh was injured of course, but that does count and could happen again this year, it'se certainly not out of the question.
And I would argue with one hand tied behind my back and one eye closed that Camargo's offense and defense combined is better than Dansby's defense.
I recall you championing an idea early this offseason that we needed to focus more on offense and less of defense.
We'll see how it goes. There's no sense in arguing over things we can't control, I'm just venting. The Markakis signing really put a burr in my saddle--I think Camargo deserved at minimum to be playing RF, and instead we've signed a guy that I think makes us lesser of a team to play out there again. That's where my gripe really lays at this point. And I believe the Braves did that by upgrading Camargo with JD. The issue is you seem to think that Camargo and Swanson are equally capable shortstops, and they aren’t. I didn’t argue that the Braves should dismiss defensive value, in favor of offensive value. I argued that the Braves could stand to lose some defensive value, in favor of some offensive value. I wouldn’t have expected Camargo to be the sacrificial lamb, but here we are. If you held my feet to the fire, I’d still maintain that the Braves could replace defensive with offensive value, but I’d add the caveat that CF and SS are two of the last positions you’d want to do that, because their defensive value is more important than all other positions. I've never said nor implied that. In fact I've said several times it does appear to me that Dansby is a better defensive shortstop. I would put an asterisk by that and say we also don't really know either way for a fact, because Camargo has not played enough SS in the big leagues to make a definitive decision. SS was his natural position in the minors, and I do feel he has a superior arm to Dansby, so I do feel like worst case we don't have a significant drop off in defense at SS if Camargo played there instead of Dansby. And we would obviously have a very significant increase in offense if he did.
And I will add a disclaimer to the idea of Donaldson being an upgrade over Camargo at 3rd base--that's IF he stays healthy, and there's definitely a gamble there. He only played 113 games in 2017, so it's not like last year was his only issue.
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Post by peteorr on Jan 26, 2019 21:33:07 GMT -5
Donaldson was indeed injured some in 2017. I'd still gladly take that 5 WAR from him again despite said injury.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 27, 2019 0:28:11 GMT -5
And I believe the Braves did that by upgrading Camargo with JD. The issue is you seem to think that Camargo and Swanson are equally capable shortstops, and they aren’t. I didn’t argue that the Braves should dismiss defensive value, in favor of offensive value. I argued that the Braves could stand to lose some defensive value, in favor of some offensive value. I wouldn’t have expected Camargo to be the sacrificial lamb, but here we are. If you held my feet to the fire, I’d still maintain that the Braves could replace defensive with offensive value, but I’d add the caveat that CF and SS are two of the last positions you’d want to do that, because their defensive value is more important than all other positions. I've never said nor implied that. In fact I've said several times it does appear to me that Dansby is a better defensive shortstop. I would put an asterisk by that and say we also don't really know either way for a fact, because Camargo has not played enough SS in the big leagues to make a definitive decision. SS was his natural position in the minors, and I do feel he has a superior arm to Dansby, so I do feel like worst case we don't have a significant drop off in defense at SS if Camargo played there instead of Dansby. And we would obviously have a very significant increase in offense if he did.
And I will add a disclaimer to the idea of Donaldson being an upgrade over Camargo at 3rd base--that's IF he stays healthy, and there's definitely a gamble there. He only played 113 games in 2017, so it's not like last year was his only issue.
I’m reading your point as the Braves should replace Swanson with Camargo. Where did I err?
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 27, 2019 1:12:28 GMT -5
I've never said nor implied that. In fact I've said several times it does appear to me that Dansby is a better defensive shortstop. I would put an asterisk by that and say we also don't really know either way for a fact, because Camargo has not played enough SS in the big leagues to make a definitive decision. SS was his natural position in the minors, and I do feel he has a superior arm to Dansby, so I do feel like worst case we don't have a significant drop off in defense at SS if Camargo played there instead of Dansby. And we would obviously have a very significant increase in offense if he did.
And I will add a disclaimer to the idea of Donaldson being an upgrade over Camargo at 3rd base--that's IF he stays healthy, and there's definitely a gamble there. He only played 113 games in 2017, so it's not like last year was his only issue.
I’m reading your point as the Braves should replace Swanson with Camargo. Where did I err? I guess we need to define "equally capable shortstops."
If we mean defensively, I just admitted and have said all of last year Dansby appears to be better.
I know we're not talking about offensively, because that would be an embarrassing comparison.
If we mean offense and defense combined, then I feel confident saying Camargo is the better overall player.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 27, 2019 2:01:28 GMT -5
I’m reading your point as the Braves should replace Swanson with Camargo. Where did I err? I guess we need to define "equally capable shortstops."
If we mean defensively, I just admitted and have said all of last year Dansby appears to be better.
I know we're not talking about offensively, because that would be an embarrassing comparison.
If we mean offense and defense combined, then I feel confident saying Camargo is the better overall player.
See, you stated that comparing the two offensively would be an embarrassing comparison, and I agree completely, but where we differ is I think a comparison defensively would be just as embarrassing for Camargo; and at the end of the day, I’m confident that the Braves see it the same way I do.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 27, 2019 3:04:59 GMT -5
I guess we need to define "equally capable shortstops."
If we mean defensively, I just admitted and have said all of last year Dansby appears to be better.
I know we're not talking about offensively, because that would be an embarrassing comparison.
If we mean offense and defense combined, then I feel confident saying Camargo is the better overall player.
See, you stated that comparing the two offensively would be an embarrassing comparison, and I agree completely, but where we differ is I think a comparison defensively would be just as embarrassing for Camargo; and at the end of the day, I’m confident that the Braves see it the same way I do. Camargo's career wRC+ is 34 points higher than Dansby's. You really think Dansby's defense is comparatively that much better than Camargo would be defensively at SS??? I'd be willing to bet that Camargo has as good an arm if not better, and it's not like he hasn't shown he has equally good a set of hands for fielding....the only thing left would be range and I don't think Dansby's is THAT much more significant. Again it's hard to judge that because we haven't seen Camargo play SS enough in the big leagues.
Dansby really improved his defense a lot this past season, but it's not like he's Andrelton Simmons out there.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 27, 2019 3:25:21 GMT -5
See, you stated that comparing the two offensively would be an embarrassing comparison, and I agree completely, but where we differ is I think a comparison defensively would be just as embarrassing for Camargo; and at the end of the day, I’m confident that the Braves see it the same way I do. Camargo's career wRC+ is 34 points higher than Dansby's. You really think Dansby's defense is comparatively that much better than Camargo would be defensively at SS??? I'd be willing to bet that Camargo has as good an arm if not better, and it's not like he hasn't shown he has equally good a set of hands for fielding....the only thing left would be range and I don't think Dansby's is THAT much more significant. Again it's hard to judge that because we haven't seen Camargo play SS enough in the big leagues.
Dansby really improved his defense a lot this past season, but it's not like he's Andrelton Simmons out there.
Ya, I think it. I think the Braves are in an infinitely better position to make that call and they clearly have. I’m not about to assume that the Braves, who know the defensive abilities of both players, and work with them everyday, don’t know the answer to that question.
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