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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 18, 2018 18:47:44 GMT -5
Braves need to move on. Most are slotting Grandal in at 4-years, $64 million. I say the Braves should fly him out to STP, have some of the players there, have Snitker there, talk about all the young pitchers, talk about all the homers he'll hit, talk about how he's the best pitch framer in the game, and offer him $18 mil., per year. I agree that the Braves need to move on. To me Grandal isn't necessarily the logical conclusion, although I guess you could consider him. You want to be paying roughly $9M per WAR as I understand it. Obviously less is better for all teams and further, the Braves can probably afford the going rate in some, but not all contracts. Grandal is now 30. You would probably want two 3 WAR seasons out of him in 2019 and 2020 and 2 or 2.5 WAR out of him in 2021 and 2022. Do you expect that out of him? Is there a different area in which the Braves can spend to get a more likely return? To me jumping from Realmuto to Grandal means you desire an elite catcher. Is an elite catcher necessary? The way I look at it Suzuki would be much cheaper than $18M a season and he could very well play just as well as Grandal would in years three and four. Does Grandal make you a World Series contender? Alone, he does not. To me there needs to be a number of corresponding moves to truly improve the team for a Grandal signing to make sense. I'm just not excited by the prospects of year three and four of his potential deal. You may disagree. There is also the chance that Grandal might be bad from the start. I would really hesitate to spend big on a catcher. There are exceptions such as clear hall of fame catchers and Brian McCann who was fairly good and significantly younger than Grandal when he was paid. Grandal is a solid defender and an elite pitch framer. He's also pretty darn good with the bat, for now. Over 4 years, he may not be able to reproduce is offensive output, but his defensive contributions should remain consistent. The key here is that his pitch framing will improve the value of the entire pitching staff, so you have to account his value there, as well.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 18, 2018 19:38:49 GMT -5
Grandal is the 3rd best catcher in all of baseball over the last three years.
I'm not sure he's worth $16M/year for 4 years. At least not to us, we only need a catcher for 2, maybe 3 years. If Contreras continues to cut it.
But he's in the upper echelon, and he's fit, he should be good for at least another 5 years.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 18, 2018 20:17:59 GMT -5
Grandal is the 3rd best catcher in all of baseball over the last three years.
I'm not sure he's worth $16M/year for 4 years. At least not to us, we only need a catcher for 2, maybe 3 years. If Contreras continues to cut it.
But he's in the upper echelon, and he's fit, he should be good for at least another 5 years.
I don’t know about you, but I’m not ready to forego a deal for a top-3 catcher because of a prospect that hasn’t even hit AA yet. If the Braves can get Grandal, they should, and if Contreras makes some meteoric rise, then you reassess. If he takes the normal route, then you got a 2-year backup, that can spend that time learning from one of the very best.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 18, 2018 21:08:22 GMT -5
Grandal is the 3rd best catcher in all of baseball over the last three years.
I'm not sure he's worth $16M/year for 4 years. At least not to us, we only need a catcher for 2, maybe 3 years. If Contreras continues to cut it.
But he's in the upper echelon, and he's fit, he should be good for at least another 5 years.
I don’t know about you, but I’m not ready to forego a deal for a top-3 catcher because of a prospect that hasn’t even hit AA yet. If the Braves can get Grandal, they should, and if Contreras makes some meteoric rise, then you reassess. If he takes the normal route, then you got a 2-year backup, that can spend that time learning from one of the very best. I agree. I really don't want to go 4 years on Grandal, but if that's what it takes to get him I'd be in favor of it rather than passing. I'd have to weigh it against Ramos too, if we could get him I would be happy with that.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 18, 2018 22:14:53 GMT -5
I don’t know about you, but I’m not ready to forego a deal for a top-3 catcher because of a prospect that hasn’t even hit AA yet. If the Braves can get Grandal, they should, and if Contreras makes some meteoric rise, then you reassess. If he takes the normal route, then you got a 2-year backup, that can spend that time learning from one of the very best. I agree. I really don't want to go 4 years on Grandal, but if that's what it takes to get him I'd be in favor of it rather than passing. I'd have to weigh it against Ramos too, if we could get him I would be happy with that. I don’t mind the 4 years, and I’ll tell you why in one name, Suzuki, which has been his age the last two years with the Braves. Grandal would be 33-34 the last two years of the deal. Suzuki has not been nearly as good a player as Grandal, so if the last two years is a platoon of Grandal and Contreras, and Grandal is putting up 2-2.5 WAR a year, then I’m good with that.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 18, 2018 22:25:20 GMT -5
I agree. I really don't want to go 4 years on Grandal, but if that's what it takes to get him I'd be in favor of it rather than passing. I'd have to weigh it against Ramos too, if we could get him I would be happy with that. I don’t mind the 4 years, and I’ll tell you why in one name, Suzuki, which has been his age the last two years with the Braves. Grandal would be 33-34 the last two years of the deal. Suzuki has not been nearly as good a player as Grandal, so if the last two years is a platoon of Grandal and Contreras, and Grandal is putting up 2-2.5 WAR a year, then I’m good with that. I agree with that. I just wish we had Grandal and Suzuki for the next two years instead of Flowers being there.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 18, 2018 23:28:14 GMT -5
I don’t mind the 4 years, and I’ll tell you why in one name, Suzuki, which has been his age the last two years with the Braves. Grandal would be 33-34 the last two years of the deal. Suzuki has not been nearly as good a player as Grandal, so if the last two years is a platoon of Grandal and Contreras, and Grandal is putting up 2-2.5 WAR a year, then I’m good with that. I agree with that. I just wish we had Grandal and Suzuki for the next two years instead of Flowers being there. Watch, Flowers will put up like a 2.5 WAR next season.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 19, 2018 11:24:11 GMT -5
I agree with that. I just wish we had Grandal and Suzuki for the next two years instead of Flowers being there. Watch, Flowers will put up like a 2.5 WAR next season. I’m expecting closer to 0.0, but we’ll see.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Nov 19, 2018 11:54:42 GMT -5
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hokiedan
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Post by hokiedan on Nov 19, 2018 12:09:36 GMT -5
The Braves are going to probably regret that
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 19, 2018 12:16:08 GMT -5
Watch, Flowers will put up like a 2.5 WAR next season. I’m expecting closer to 0.0, but we’ll see. Geez, why?
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 19, 2018 12:18:04 GMT -5
The Braves are going to probably regret that I think so too.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 19, 2018 12:19:31 GMT -5
I’m expecting closer to 0.0, but we’ll see. Geez, why? Because he's been an average of about 1.0 WAR per season in his career, he's turning 33 and had this post all star finish last year:
.217/.317/.342/.658
He was a 1.2 this year and I won't be surprised to see worse than that next year.
Plus, HOPEFULLY he won't be our starting catcher, which will limit his playing time and ability to accrue WAR.
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Post by wncbravesfan on Nov 19, 2018 13:01:29 GMT -5
The Braves are going to probably regret that I think so too. The Braves made it clear we no longer wanted the service of the 35 yr old Suzuki......
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 19, 2018 13:17:17 GMT -5
Because he's been an average of about 1.0 WAR per season in his career, he's turning 33 and had this post all star finish last year:
.217/.317/.342/.658
He was a 1.2 this year and I won't be surprised to see worse than that next year.
Plus, HOPEFULLY he won't be our starting catcher, which will limit his playing time and ability to accrue WAR.
He put up a 2.0 fWAR in 2017.
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