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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 3, 2020 20:22:29 GMT -5
Yyyyyyyyyup, always knew it was coming.
Ridiculous deal.
May god have mercy on us.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 3, 2020 20:28:11 GMT -5
Yyyyyyyyyup, always knew it was coming.
Ridiculous deal.
May god have mercy on us.
You guys are so emotional, lol. I think the deal will work out for the Braves, even if the last year is an albatross. He only has to put up 13 WAR to make the deal worth it.
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Post by mauibravefan on Jan 3, 2020 20:38:20 GMT -5
If a JD signing enables payroll increase might be beneficial
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 3, 2020 21:35:22 GMT -5
Yyyyyyyyyup, always knew it was coming.
Ridiculous deal.
May god have mercy on us.
You guys are so emotional, lol. I think the deal will work out for the Braves, even if the last year is an albatross. He only has to put up 13 WAR to make the deal worth it. 13 WAR for $104M? That seems crazy. You must be using that nutty surplus value machine to come up with that, or some other "theoretical" method, in reality 13 WAR comes way cheaper than that. You just said tonight you would expect Marte to give 6 WAR in the next two years for $22M.
And I will be surprised if JD gives us 13 WAR.
I'm going to screen shot your post and save it, and if I don't die in the meantime, we'll revisit this after his four years are up!
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 3, 2020 21:45:52 GMT -5
You guys are so emotional, lol. I think the deal will work out for the Braves, even if the last year is an albatross. He only has to put up 13 WAR to make the deal worth it. 13 WAR for $104M? That seems crazy. You must be using that nutty surplus value machine to come up with that, or some other "theoretical" method, in reality 13 WAR comes way cheaper than that. You just said tonight you would expect Marte to give 6 WAR in the next two years for $22M.
And I will be surprised if JD gives us 13 WAR.
I'm going to screen shot your post and save it, and if I don't die in the meantime, we'll revisit this after his four years are up!
You misread. Marte’s contract has $22 million remaining. I said “that’s what he would cost”. If war is $9 million then 13 war is $117 million in value.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 3, 2020 22:04:29 GMT -5
13 WAR for $104M? That seems crazy. You must be using that nutty surplus value machine to come up with that, or some other "theoretical" method, in reality 13 WAR comes way cheaper than that. You just said tonight you would expect Marte to give 6 WAR in the next two years for $22M.
And I will be surprised if JD gives us 13 WAR.
I'm going to screen shot your post and save it, and if I don't die in the meantime, we'll revisit this after his four years are up!
You misread. Marte’s contract has $22 million remaining. I said “that’s what he would cost”. If war is $9 million then 13 war is $117 million in value. I guess I'm still confused then, because in the same post where you said Marte would cost $22M for the next two years you said we could expect him to give us 6ish WAR.
We've had this discussion a whole bunch of times and I don't want to push into that same talk again, I just don't see 1 WAR being worth $9M in the real world. Maybe I'm thickheaded about it but that seems like some fantasy number that does not relate at all to the actual value of 1 WAR. To me that would mean a 3 WAR player should get paid $27M for one season.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 3, 2020 22:57:06 GMT -5
You misread. Marte’s contract has $22 million remaining. I said “that’s what he would cost”. If war is $9 million then 13 war is $117 million in value. I guess I'm still confused then, because in the same post where you said Marte would cost $22M for the next two years you said we could expect him to give us 6ish WAR.
We've had this discussion a whole bunch of times and I don't want to push into that same talk again, I just don't see 1 WAR being worth $9M in the real world. Maybe I'm thickheaded about it but that seems like some fantasy number that does not relate at all to the actual value of 1 WAR. To me that would mean a 3 WAR player should get paid $27M for one season.
It’s a number that takes all players salaries and divides it by number of players. And a 3 war player is worth that much. Edit: I misspoke earlier about how war is calculated. In actuality, it's calculated by the total WAR accumulated and divides it by all the money spent on salaries. To explain why it doesn't make sense is because people always look at the high and the low end of the scale, but generally speaking, if you look in the middle, it fits. Think of a bell curve. I also dug a little deep and found out that the value of $/WAR is $8 million, not $9 million. I'll use this edit to explain how this pertains to Marte's value, if you're the Braves and you're considering trading for him. Marte has 2 club options left at a total of $24 million. That is what the Braves have to pay Marte, but what value do the Braves get for that money? Last year, Marte put up 3.0 WAR, so let's be generous and say he'll do exactly the same thing over the next two years; that's 6.0 WAR. Great, what value is that in terms of dollars? 6.0 WAR at $8 mil per WAR is $48 million. You now need to subtract Marte's contract from his value, which means that Marte's "surplus" value is $24 million. If you're the Braves you want to give up less surplus value than that, and if you're the Pirates you want to get more value than that. If we go by the old negotiating adage "each side picks the extremes and meet in the middle" then the Braves would need to give up $24 million in surplus value to get Marte. That's even-steven. I won't get into the whole "how much are prospects worth" thing because that'll take a couple more paragraphs, so let's just say that they do have surplus value, and it's based on where each player is ranked, the highest having the most surplus value. Prospects are pure speculation, but everyone buys into it, so the perceived value is real. Real enough for teams to accept the perceived value in lieu of real value. The Braves prospects are perceived value, Marte is real value (to an extent, he could blow his dick out and miss the next two years, for example). To put this into some perspective. Drew Waters is a prospect. He has no real MLB value, but he has perceived value. What is it? Well, according to mlb, he's the 23rd rated prospect. Fangraphs has valuated prospects, and a prospect of his caliber has a perceived surplus value of $46 million. Could the Braves trade him for Marte? Sure, but should they? Some teams actually do deals like this. It's why the Braves currently have Swanson on their roster. Other teams, like the Braves, value this perceived value more and keep their prospects. It would be a big gamble to give up that much perceived value, when the past as shown that, on average, a player of Waters caliber puts up that much value once they're called up and under team control. Teams, generally, will gamble on perceived value when either the real value is too great, or when the perceived value is very low.
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 3, 2020 23:19:35 GMT -5
That's fantasy baseball. This is the real thing. If this happens, it'll wind up right there with the worst contracts in baseball. You don't give 34-year-old players $100 million dollar deals. It's bad business. I don't like it at all. That said, I hope and pray that I'm eating crow in a couple of years after he leads us to a championship, but that's about the only way it'll be worth it.
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 4, 2020 10:11:48 GMT -5
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 4, 2020 10:42:02 GMT -5
I know exactly what I think of it.
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Post by Drkirby on Jan 4, 2020 10:48:58 GMT -5
I know what the gnats think of it, since they signed people that could replace him signing elsewhere
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 4, 2020 10:50:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation nightman, I remember that now. I just have a hard time accepting a model that isn’t realistically applicable to one third of the players in the league because they’re on the ends of the bell curve.
If we’re going to really go after it by signing JD then I would advocate trading either Riley or Camargo for Marte too. We’ve given up on both of them so use them instead of letting them rot.
Of course we wont acquire Marte because that would push Nick completely out the picture and Snitker ain’t having none of that, that would cause him erectile dysfunction.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 4, 2020 11:01:26 GMT -5
I know exactly what I think of it. Yep. Time to move on to plan B, whatever that is.
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 4, 2020 11:31:05 GMT -5
I don't think the gnats are gonna give him that. Let the Twins have him. He can DH there anyway. That makes a huge difference.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 4, 2020 11:47:52 GMT -5
I’d just as soon sign Ozuna and see if we can swing a deal for Seattle 3B Kyle Seager.
RF Acuna 2B Albies 1B Freeman LF Ozuna 3B Seager SS Swanson C d’Arnaud CF Inciarte
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