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Post by Drkirby on Jan 2, 2020 15:36:08 GMT -5
Or any other topic we talk circles around on this page. I get it though, any dansby criticism isn’t appreciated.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 2, 2020 15:44:24 GMT -5
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 2, 2020 15:46:22 GMT -5
Yeah I've said that all along. And someone said a few days ago the offer might be $112M for four years and could end up being $120M for four years.
Surely we aren't that stupid.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 2, 2020 15:49:06 GMT -5
Well usually it just becomes a vehicle to hate on Swanson, which is fine.. but I did address that. It's obvious they have very different expectations for what they want from 3rd base. They are hard core old school accepting whatever they get from a SS bat, but wanting a power bat at 3rd. Everybody should get that by now. No big deal but I just don't see the point of saying the same thing over and over. I just want to know what option we are going to go with at 3rd base. I get we do repeat things about Snitker, but I rarely bring up Snitker when talking about JD vs Bryant vs internal options at 3rd base. It’s no different than the dansby apologists that refuse to acknowledge the facts I’ve been spouting for 3 years. Just for clarification the difference between you and me is that I felt it was wrong to declare Dansby a bust during his first year and even his second year. I don't think it was a "fact" at that point because so many young players struggle when they make the jump to the big leagues. I'm still not convinced he is a bust or will be a bust, I don't think that's a "fact" at this point. But I do think it's factual that he's been a 3.7 WAR player in 3 and 1/4 seasons and that's not very good. He has shown potential, his problem is consistency. |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 2, 2020 15:50:36 GMT -5
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 2, 2020 16:31:52 GMT -5
If we are going to sign JD, we might as well back load the contract since it will be an albatross anyway. Maybe then we can trade for an OF like Marte and make the lineup much better.
RF Acuna
2B Albies
1B Freeman
3B Donaldson
CF Marte
LF Markakis
SS Swanson
C d'Arnaud
Not a huge fan of Marte in CF, but if Pache is ready early in the season, we can put him in CF, slide Marte to LF and use Markakis off the bench.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 17:56:18 GMT -5
If we are going to sign JD, we might as well back load the contract since it will be an albatross anyway. Maybe then we can trade for an OF like Marte and make the lineup much better. RF Acuna 2B Albies 1B Freeman 3B Donaldson CF Marte LF Markakis SS Swanson C d'Arnaud Not a huge fan of Marte in CF, but if Pache is ready early in the season, we can put him in CF, slide Marte to LF and use Markakis off the bench. What do you give up for Marte? |
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 2, 2020 18:27:14 GMT -5
If we are going to sign JD, we might as well back load the contract since it will be an albatross anyway. Maybe then we can trade for an OF like Marte and make the lineup much better. RF Acuna 2B Albies 1B Freeman 3B Donaldson CF Marte LF Markakis SS Swanson C d'Arnaud Not a huge fan of Marte in CF, but if Pache is ready early in the season, we can put him in CF, slide Marte to LF and use Markakis off the bench. What do you give up for Marte? Inciarte, Toussaint and Weigel. |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 2, 2020 18:49:26 GMT -5
Well usually it just becomes a vehicle to hate on Swanson, which is fine.. but I did address that. It's obvious they have very different expectations for what they want from 3rd base. They are hard core old school accepting whatever they get from a SS bat, but wanting a power bat at 3rd. Everybody should get that by now. No big deal but I just don't see the point of saying the same thing over and over. I just want to know what option we are going to go with at 3rd base. I get we do repeat things about Snitker, but I rarely bring up Snitker when talking about JD vs Bryant vs internal options at 3rd base. It’s no different than the dansby apologists that refuse to acknowledge the facts I’ve been spouting for 3 years. Nobody has denied facts... just conclusions |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 2, 2020 18:56:29 GMT -5
Or any other topic we talk circles around on this page. I get it though, any dansby criticism isn’t appreciated. No, Dansby criticism is fine. My point was that the Braves very obviously expect different things with the bat from the 3rd base spot, so wondering why they accept Dansby but don't accept Camargo is just a bit pointless. It's like wondering why you want your #1 starter to give you more than the #5 starter. but by all means... carry on |
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Post by Drkirby on Jan 2, 2020 19:04:36 GMT -5
Or any other topic we talk circles around on this page. I get it though, any dansby criticism isn’t appreciated. No, Dansby criticism is fine. My point was that the Braves very obviously expect different things with the bat from the 3rd base spot, so wondering why they accept Dansby but don't accept Camargo is just a bit pointless. It's like wondering why you want your #1 starter to give you more than the #5 starter. but by all means... carry on Would you bet on JD our performing Camargo over a 4 year span dollars taken into account? |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 2, 2020 19:44:55 GMT -5
I would love to upgrade Dansby's 89 OPS+ at the 7th or 8th spot in the lineup, but I am more concerned with replacing or maintaining something close to the 37HR's and 127 OPS+ we had in the cleanup spot last season.
I'm not really wanting to accept Austin Rileys 86 OPS+, and Camargo's career 100 OPS+ would probably be a drop off from what we got from JD.
As far as the money over 4 years... I have no idea what our budget will be 4 years from now, so I don't know. I do know we have an open window right now and I don't know if I want to risk 2020-2021 on a Riley experiment that might not work out. I might be willing to take that 4 year risk on JD if I could still extend Freddie. It might be worth it for 2020 and 2021 even with some regression after that. Maybe we could unload a decent portion of the money at the trade deadline in 2021 if Riley develops. I am not privy to the inner workings and future financial
look of the Braves but 4 years around 100 while a bit risky, isn't like 6 years at 180 or something that could truly be crippling. I trust AA not
to enter into a risk so big as to be crippling to the organization if it didn't work out for all 4 years. At some point though you realize everything carries some risk.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 2, 2020 20:05:37 GMT -5
Even rolling with Camargo is a risk and if we do that ya better hope we get 2018 Camargo and not the 2019 version. If we sign JD we at least still have Riley/Camargo insurance. If we roll with Camargo/Riley, we have little insurance behind that. Plus I think I may be willing to take a purely financial risk on JD over a prospect giveaway for Bryant. I think getting Acuña and Oz for what we did makes taking a 4th year risk for 25-26mm something that wouldn't kill us if it came down to it.
If you tell me we get 25 HR's and 85 RBI's (somewhere close to 2018 projected out over 155 games or so out of Camargo, then sign me up for that. That however is far from a given.
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 2, 2020 20:43:27 GMT -5
I agree to a large extent, but it's not fair to pin 2019 solely on Camargo. He didn't play, and it hurt him. It was an unfair situation. Camargo should have been given a fair shot at an outfield job, but we had to give good ol' 1 WAR Nick that job. Personally, I think Badhaircut is overrated at this point. If we sign him and trade Riley only to watch him become an all-star somewhere else, I'm gonna be pissed, plus I'm just afraid that AA is gonna go to the Donaldson well one too many times. Like you said, it's all risky. Only time will tell.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 2, 2020 20:51:43 GMT -5
Or any other topic we talk circles around on this page. I get it though, any dansby criticism isn’t appreciated. No, Dansby criticism is fine. My point was that the Braves very obviously expect different things with the bat from the 3rd base spot, so wondering why they accept Dansby but don't accept Camargo is just a bit pointless. It's like wondering why you want your #1 starter to give you more than the #5 starter. but by all means... carry on I've been phrasing my complaint wrong--I have been saying "why are we so desperate to upgrade 3B and take such a huge risk and so willing to accept our SS situation." I know why, I know what the organization is thinking. A better way for me to have worded it from the beginning was to say "I disagree with being so desperate to make a risky upgrade at 3B and still be ok with our SS production."
I think the #1 and #5 starter comparison is poor--assuming the #1 starter compares to our third baseman and our #5 starter compares to our SS. For most of history that was a true, but it's become just as common to get top offensive production from SS as from 3B. It doesn't matter where our production comes from as long as we get it. If we could get it at SS rather than 3B that's fine. Or if we could get if from an OF position that's fine. To me there's ways to do it without such an expensive risk.
And I do think 4 years $100M+ has the potential to really hurt us if it doesn't pan out. It's not as bad as a 7 or 8 year deal, but it still a lot of money that could have been used elsewhere if JD regresses and/or is hurt.
I'm not trying to claim I'm right and they're wrong, none of us know the correct answer right now, only time will time. I'm just stating my opinion, and like always I'm not going to be shy about doing it and doing it without concern of how often I do it.
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