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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 16, 2019 15:08:36 GMT -5
I say keep Greene. The guy is pretty good. A combination of Melancon/Smith/Greene/Martin/Jackson/O’Day is a solid f’n bullpen. A good bullpen indeed but Martin is a free agent. Probably gonna get $12-$15M for 2 years. Ya, erred by naming Martin, but even taking him out, it’s a solid bullpen. Also, I’d venture a guess that the Braves could find an equally effective, less expensive, option to replace him.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 16, 2019 17:21:46 GMT -5
I love the Smith signing, I would definitely keep Greene, he was really good the last month and a half....I just wish we could move Melancon. I don't think he's worth what we'll be paying him, and not excited at all about hearing he will be the closer still and Smith set up.
Here's a list of the FA relievers, with their age and last year's WAR:
Will Harris (35, 1.1) Sergio Romo (37, 1.0) Chris Martin (34, 1.0) Jake Diekman (33, 1.0) Daniel Hudson (33, 0.9) Sam Dyson (32, 0.9) Brandon Kintzler (35, 0.9) Drew Pomeranz (31, 0.7) Brad Brach (34, 0.7) Tyler Clippard (35, 0.7) Yoshihisa Hirano (36, 0.5) Robbie Erlin (29, 0.5) Collin McHugh (33, 0.5) Juan Nicasio (33, 0.5) Craig Stammen (36, 0.4) Fernando Rodney (43, 0.4) Joe Smith (36, 0.4) David Hernandez (35, 0.3) Francisco Liriano (36, 0.3) Jeremy Jeffress (32, 0.3) Tony Sipp (36, 0.3) Cory Gearrin (34, 0.3) Steve Cishek (34, 0.2) Tommy Hunter (33, 0.2) Josh Tomlin (35, 0.2) Dellin Betances (32, 0.1) David Phelps (33, 0.1) Luke Gregerson (36, 0.1) Aaron Loup (32, 0.1) Tommy Milone (33, 0.1) Chad Bettis (31, 0.1) Nick Vincent (33, 0.1) Matt Albers (37, 0.0) Jerry Blevins (36, 0.0) Xavier Cedeño (33, 0.0) Mike Dunn (35, 0.0) Pedro Strop (35, 0.0) JC Ramírez (31, 0.0) Luis Avilán (30, -0.1) Greg Holland (34, -0.1) Fernando Abad (34, -0.1) Héctor Santiago (32, -0.1) Nate Jones (34, -0.1) Tony Barnette (36, -0.1) Tyler Thornburg (31, -0.1) Arodys Vizcaíno (29, -0.1) Dan Otero (35, -0.1) Tyler Lyons (32, -0.1) Shawn Kelley (36, -0.2) Héctor Rondón (32, -0.2) Ryan Tepera (32, -0.2) Pat Neshek (39, -0.3) Seunghwan Oh (37, -0.3) Trevor Rosenthal (30, -0.3) Miguel Del Pozo (27, -0.3) Wily Peralta (31, -0.4) Zach Duke (37, -0.4) Jonny Venters (35, -0.4) Nick Tropeano (29, -0.4) Jared Hughes (34, -0.5) Luis García (33, -0.6) Anthony Swarzak (34, -0.7) Cody Allen (31, -0.7) Adam Warren (32, -0.8) Derek Holland (33, -1.0) Brandon Morrow (35, N/A) Josh Fields (34, N/A) Bud Norris (35, N/A) Addison Reed (31, N/A) Tony Cingrani (30, N/A) Brian Duensing (37, N/A)
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akod
Low A Farmhand
Posts: 714
Likes: 146
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Post by akod on Nov 16, 2019 17:34:03 GMT -5
I want Betances
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 16, 2019 17:46:38 GMT -5
I'd love to have him too if we knew we were getting the pre 2018 dude. It's so hard to say what to expect from him now, I have no clue how to even begin to estimate what would be a fair money risk on him. He pitched 0.2 innings in 2019. Shoulder issues then a torn Achilles.
But I doubt we would have signed Smith if we had Betances on our radar. Maybe if we can offload Melancon, even if we have to eat some of his contract.....
From 2014 to 2018 (five seasons) these were Betances’ rankings among relievers (PinstripeAlley):
Third in K/9 (14.63) Eight in ERA (2.22) Fourth in FIP (2.26) Third in xFIP (2.28) Second in fWAR (11.2) Second in holds (117) First in innings pitched (373.1 IP) First in strikeouts (607) Fourth in K% (40.3) Sixth in SIERA (2.17) Eighth-lowest contact percentage (65.5)
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 16, 2019 17:51:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind having Kintzler, he's coming off a two year contract where he made $5M per year. I'd rather have him than Martin.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 16, 2019 18:35:24 GMT -5
Switching to starting pitchers.
I know we’d all want Wheeler and, to a lesser extent, MadBum, but for me, I’d like to see the Braves bring back Alex Wood. I don’t really wanna see the Braves lose another pick, and Wood seems like a really good buy low candidate.
That being said, if the Braves go Wheeler, I’d be surprised and I wouldn’t hate it. The thought runs through my mind “ya, it’d be good to have picks and int’l money, but neither is needed if the team builds itself into a serious contender over the next 5 years”. Braves are already prevented from signing int’l FAs over $100k for this year, and I think next year too, so losing that money doesn’t really hurt, and giving it up is worth signing a guy like Wheeler. At the same time, isn’t pick they lose is going to be a third round pick, and you don’t really get studs that late in the draft. Still, it’ll hurt the overall draft pool, and that has consequences; especially for a savvy team, like the Braves, that’s really good at manipulating their slot money to get a solid overall draft.
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Post by hokiedan on Nov 16, 2019 18:50:29 GMT -5
Switching to starting pitchers. I know we’d all want Wheeler and, to a lesser extent, MadBum, but for me, I’d like to see the Braves bring back Alex Wood. I don’t really wanna see the Braves lose another pick, and Wood seems like a really good buy low candidate. That being said, if the Braves go Wheeler, I’d be surprised and I wouldn’t hate it. The thought runs through my mind “ya, it’d be good to have picks and int’l money, but neither is needed if the team builds itself into a serious contender over the next 5 years”. Braves are already prevented from signing int’l FAs over $100k for this year, and I think next year too, so losing that money doesn’t really hurt, and giving it up is worth signing a guy like Wheeler. At the same time, isn’t pick they lose is going to be a third round pick, and you don’t really get studs that late in the draft. Still, it’ll hurt the overall draft pool, and that has consequences; especially for a savvy team, like the Braves, that’s really good at manipulating their slot money to get a solid overall draft. Won't the Braves get a pick back if someone else signs Donaldson
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 16, 2019 18:52:03 GMT -5
I thought about Alex Wood the other day, he scares me to death because of injuries. We had to put up with a few idiots running their mouths for a couple years after we traded Wood, like we had let a future Hall of Famer go. I always assumed he was going to have injury issues, and he's now pitched 400 innings over the last four years. I'd pass. Some arm issues and now back problems are more than I'd want to risk.
Available FA pitchers:
Gerrit Cole (29 years old, 7.4 WAR) -- declined qualifying offer from HOU (11/14) Stephen Strasburg (31, 5.7) -- declined qualifying offer from WSH (11/14) Hyun-Jin Ryu (33, 4.8) Zack Wheeler (30, 4.7) -- declined qualifying offer from NYM (11/14) Jake Odorizzi (30, 4.3) -- accepted qualifying offer from MIN (11/14) Madison Bumgarner (30, 3.2) -- declined qualifying offer from SF (11/14) Homer Bailey (34, 2.9) Michael Pineda (30, 2.7) Kyle Gibson (32, 2.5) Cole Hamels (36, 2.5) Adam Wainwright (38, 2.2) -- signed 1-year deal with STL (11/12) Tanner Roark (33, 2.0) Wade Miley (33, 2.0) Brett Anderson (32, 2.0) Iván Nova (33, 2.0) Martín Pérez (29, 1.9) Andrew Cashner (33, 1.8) Jason Vargas (37, 1.8) Rick Porcello (31, 1.8) Julio Teheran (29, 1.6) Jordan Lyles (29, 1.6) Gio Gonzalez (34, 1.4) Rich Hill (40, 0.9) Dallas Keuchel (32, 0.8) Matt Moore (31, 0.5) Clay Buchholz (35, 0.1) Tyson Ross (33, 0.0) Félix Hernández (34, -0.1) Jhoulys Chacín (32, -0.1) Jeremy Hellickson (33, -0.1) Odrisamer Despaigne (33, -0.1) -- reportedly joining KBO team Michael Wacha (28, -0.2) Alex Wood (29, -0.2) Edinson Vólquez (36, -0.2) Marco Estrada (36, -0.2) Shelby Miller (29, -0.2) Clayton Richard (36, -0.2) Drew Smyly (29, -0.3) Wade LeBlanc (35, -0.3) Matt Harvey (31, -0.3) Héctor Noesi (33, -0.3) Ervin Santana (37, -0.4) Ross Detwiler (34, -0.6) Trevor Cahill (32, -0.8) Derek Holland (33, -1.0) Edwin Jackson (36, -1.1)
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 16, 2019 18:53:34 GMT -5
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 16, 2019 20:49:09 GMT -5
Switching to starting pitchers. I know we’d all want Wheeler and, to a lesser extent, MadBum, but for me, I’d like to see the Braves bring back Alex Wood. I don’t really wanna see the Braves lose another pick, and Wood seems like a really good buy low candidate. That being said, if the Braves go Wheeler, I’d be surprised and I wouldn’t hate it. The thought runs through my mind “ya, it’d be good to have picks and int’l money, but neither is needed if the team builds itself into a serious contender over the next 5 years”. Braves are already prevented from signing int’l FAs over $100k for this year, and I think next year too, so losing that money doesn’t really hurt, and giving it up is worth signing a guy like Wheeler. At the same time, isn’t pick they lose is going to be a third round pick, and you don’t really get studs that late in the draft. Still, it’ll hurt the overall draft pool, and that has consequences; especially for a savvy team, like the Braves, that’s really good at manipulating their slot money to get a solid overall draft. Won't the Braves get a pick back if someone else signs Donaldson Ya, they lost one for Smith, though.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 16, 2019 20:50:01 GMT -5
I thought about Alex Wood the other day, he scares me to death because of injuries. We had to put up with a few idiots running their mouths for a couple years after we traded Wood, like we had let a future Hall of Famer go. I always assumed he was going to have injury issues, and he's now pitched 400 innings over the last four years. I'd pass. Some arm issues and now back problems are more than I'd want to risk.
Available FA pitchers:
Gerrit Cole (29 years old, 7.4 WAR) -- declined qualifying offer from HOU (11/14) Stephen Strasburg (31, 5.7) -- declined qualifying offer from WSH (11/14) Hyun-Jin Ryu (33, 4.8) Zack Wheeler (30, 4.7) -- declined qualifying offer from NYM (11/14) Jake Odorizzi (30, 4.3) -- accepted qualifying offer from MIN (11/14) Madison Bumgarner (30, 3.2) -- declined qualifying offer from SF (11/14) Homer Bailey (34, 2.9) Michael Pineda (30, 2.7) Kyle Gibson (32, 2.5) Cole Hamels (36, 2.5) Adam Wainwright (38, 2.2) -- signed 1-year deal with STL (11/12) Tanner Roark (33, 2.0) Wade Miley (33, 2.0) Brett Anderson (32, 2.0) Iván Nova (33, 2.0) Martín Pérez (29, 1.9) Andrew Cashner (33, 1.8) Jason Vargas (37, 1.8) Rick Porcello (31, 1.8) Julio Teheran (29, 1.6) Jordan Lyles (29, 1.6) Gio Gonzalez (34, 1.4) Rich Hill (40, 0.9) Dallas Keuchel (32, 0.8) Matt Moore (31, 0.5) Clay Buchholz (35, 0.1) Tyson Ross (33, 0.0) Félix Hernández (34, -0.1) Jhoulys Chacín (32, -0.1) Jeremy Hellickson (33, -0.1) Odrisamer Despaigne (33, -0.1) -- reportedly joining KBO team Michael Wacha (28, -0.2) Alex Wood (29, -0.2) Edinson Vólquez (36, -0.2) Marco Estrada (36, -0.2) Shelby Miller (29, -0.2) Clayton Richard (36, -0.2) Drew Smyly (29, -0.3) Wade LeBlanc (35, -0.3) Matt Harvey (31, -0.3) Héctor Noesi (33, -0.3) Ervin Santana (37, -0.4) Ross Detwiler (34, -0.6) Trevor Cahill (32, -0.8) Derek Holland (33, -1.0) Edwin Jackson (36, -1.1)
All true, but the Braves do have plenty of back up, and he’d be the 4th, maybe 5th guy in the rotation.
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Post by keystone61 on Nov 16, 2019 21:39:50 GMT -5
I like Wheeler, but you know, the more I think about it, I think I'd rather have Bumgarner. IIRC, neither of his injuries was baseball related, and Wheeler had Tommy John and a bad shoulder, didn't he?
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 16, 2019 21:48:51 GMT -5
I thought about Alex Wood the other day, he scares me to death because of injuries. We had to put up with a few idiots running their mouths for a couple years after we traded Wood, like we had let a future Hall of Famer go. I always assumed he was going to have injury issues, and he's now pitched 400 innings over the last four years. I'd pass. Some arm issues and now back problems are more than I'd want to risk.
All true, but the Braves do have plenty of back up, and he’d be the 4th, maybe 5th guy in the rotation. I would be all for having him if we knew he was going to be healthy but that's a big if to me right now. I wonder what he'll cost. He made $10M this year, not sure what the market will be for him now. If it's in that price range that's a big risk for us to take since we're already paying $27.5M to two relievers and haven't even addressed the catcher position yet. And we'd have three lefties lined up as starter for 2020, which of course is also true if we sign Bumgarner.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 17, 2019 4:25:41 GMT -5
All true, but the Braves do have plenty of back up, and he’d be the 4th, maybe 5th guy in the rotation. I would be all for having him if we knew he was going to be healthy but that's a big if to me right now. I wonder what he'll cost. He made $10M this year, not sure what the market will be for him now. If it's in that price range that's a big risk for us to take since we're already paying $27.5M to two relievers and haven't even addressed the catcher position yet. And we'd have three lefties lined up as starter for 2020, which of course is also true if we sign Bumgarner. Well, he put up a negative war this past year, so he might only be interested in a 1-year deal, to reestablish his market; and that $10 million was based on it being his last year of arbitration, coming off of a 2.4 WAR season, I would gather that 1-year deal isn't going to be at $10 million. I also don't think teams are going to be banging down his door, so I think the Braves could go out and address positions of need and then see where he's at, and where they're at. I'm not saying they should do the deal right now. I'm just saying that he should be on the big board.
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akod
Low A Farmhand
Posts: 714
Likes: 146
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Post by akod on Nov 17, 2019 22:54:13 GMT -5
I'd love to have him too if we knew we were getting the pre 2018 dude. It's so hard to say what to expect from him now, I have no clue how to even begin to estimate what would be a fair money risk on him. He pitched 0.2 innings in 2019. Shoulder issues then a torn Achilles.
But I doubt we would have signed Smith if we had Betances on our radar. Maybe if we can offload Melancon, even if we have to eat some of his contract.....
From 2014 to 2018 (five seasons) these were Betances’ rankings among relievers (PinstripeAlley):
Third in K/9 (14.63) Eight in ERA (2.22) Fourth in FIP (2.26) Third in xFIP (2.28) Second in fWAR (11.2) Second in holds (117) First in innings pitched (373.1 IP) First in strikeouts (607) Fourth in K% (40.3) Sixth in SIERA (2.17) Eighth-lowest contact percentage (65.5)
That’s why I want him. He will be a cheap lotto ticket that could pay off in a big way. I also want Martin back. Keep Melancon.
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