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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 31, 2020 23:16:33 GMT -5
Baseball writers are hooked on the go for it now and deplete your future approach. It’s sensationalism. It gets them clicks, which is all they care about.Sure it’s fun when you’re good and “going for it,” not fun at all doing s full rebuild. That was brutal for me to endure, don’t wanna go there again. And our turnaround was super fast but still brutal. All things considered, the Braves rebuild wasn’t bad at all. The Coppy shenanigans was the literal worst, but I enjoyed the building, drafting, signings, and watching the young guys rise up the ranks. I agree and the reason why I didn't think the rebuild was brutal was the fact that I understood what they were doing and saw the constant progress towards that goal. Absolutely, not every move worked out but overall there was a steady progress towards the end goal. It was consistent and on point. It was very different than the Braves of the 70's and 80's where they were just aimlessly floundering around making zero headway on a journey with no clear destination. For this rebuild I was able to endure the journey because it went along a controlled path with a clear cut destination. |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 31, 2020 23:19:34 GMT -5
Is that true or are they saying he is significantly better than our alternatives. I think you are exaggerating about how he is being spoken about. No one has said Bryant isn't a good alternative..or Arenado couldn't carry JD's jock.. they are just comparing him to Riley and Camargo. Now if you want to say that Riley and Camargo are viable alternatives after we added the power of Ozuna, then I can buy that... but I don't think they are saying JD is the be all-end all of baseball players. May be, but that blurb makes it sound like the Braves pushed all their chips in and he just preferred the Twins. A "difficult pill to swallow"? That's ridiculous. 4 years, $100 million with an option for a 5th year is the difficult pill to swallow. IMO. By the way, who says that? Nobody says that........it's a tough pill to swallow. None of that has anything to do with the comment that everyone talked about JD as being the end all/be all of baseball players. In fact, I don't even see whatever you are saying as being a reply to what I said at all. |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 31, 2020 23:23:14 GMT -5
All things considered, the Braves rebuild wasn’t bad at all. The Coppy shenanigans was the literal worst, but I enjoyed the building, drafting, signings, and watching the young guys rise up the ranks. I will never forgive myself for not hoarding Acuna RC auto cards. Could have got them so dirt cheap on the ground floor. Base cards sell for a grand a pop. FUUUUUUUDGE!!!!!! I agree I enjoyed all that too, but I did not enjoy at all winning 207 games over the course of three seasons combined and finishing 25 games behind each year. Brutal in that aspect. I get that and I agree that it was tough when we are accustomed to winning, but I just accepted what was going on and doing that just said "okay, what can I see here to be positive about?" |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 31, 2020 23:42:24 GMT -5
Sadly though... while I was this bastion of positivity during the rebound, I now see us on the other side on the precipice of greatness with this blundering dolt of a manager.
One who is only capable of seeing the obvious that any dingwing on this message board can see is the best 7-8 players and blindly trotting that lineup out every single night with no concept of how to manage the ins and outs of reserves to have the team sharp but still healthy as we enter the post-season. One who once again can do the obvious and be at the helm of a team that over 162 games can talent its way to a division crown, but in a short series where actual management is needed will bumble his way to one stupid decision after another being as oblivious to his mistakes as the character Michael Scott was during the TV show The Office.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Feb 1, 2020 2:15:35 GMT -5
All things considered, the Braves rebuild wasn’t bad at all. The Coppy shenanigans was the literal worst, but I enjoyed the building, drafting, signings, and watching the young guys rise up the ranks. I will never forgive myself for not hoarding Acuna RC auto cards. Could have got them so dirt cheap on the ground floor. Base cards sell for a grand a pop. FUUUUUUUDGE!!!!!! I agree I enjoyed all that too, but I did not enjoy at all winning 207 games over the course of three seasons combined and finishing 25 games behind each year. Brutal in that aspect. I feel where you're coming from. From my point of view, once I knew they were going to rebuild I put them winning completely out of my mind. I knew they were gonna lose a lot, and I didn't care, because I knew why they were losing. As long as the losing had a goal, I understood. That doesn't mean I rooted for them to lose, I'd never do that. It was more just an acceptance of it, like the sun rising every morning. I celebrated the wins where I could, always hoped for the best, and had confidence that the FO wouldn't waste the opportunity. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 8:59:03 GMT -5
I still am not convinced that the Braves would have had the success the last two yrs under the Hart/Coppy duo
Alex brought in a new approach in handling and managing people, an analytics department that had the intention of helping all players (including the longer term veterans) & rest assured had we not had Coppygate, Snitker would have been gone. Remember Hart's tirade on Snitker after a bad game after a John Johnson blown save
PR wise they should have been more honest and frank about it, it would have been easier to take.
And I sure as hell do not miss squeaky voiced Coppy at all and the double talking of John Hart who to me I just want to throw darts at the TV set every time he comes on
And I do not miss being in the bottom five of payroll. Not to mention and will never get why the FO had that thing for Hector Olivera
It was three yrs of the Pit of Misery & note that the building blocks (Acuna, Albies and Camargo) were Frank Wren players. Time will evaluate the Coppy/Hart drafts, so far I see one stud in Soroka health permitting. Riley might be very good.
Allard might turn into a fair pitcher elsewhere, too early to tell but he did not click here
Alex and Snitker gets most of the credit for this turnaround - its about how you handle people and build a culture. The team culture was rudderless under Coppy and he clearly did not know the rules or was blatant and arrogant
PR wise the prior duo was an irritant - AA had healed the team culture and its showing on the field and Snitker has done better than he is sometimes given credit for. Who knows what he would have been replaced with
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Feb 1, 2020 12:12:01 GMT -5
I still am not convinced that the Braves would have had the success the last two yrs under the Hart/Coppy duo Alex brought in a new approach in handling and managing people, an analytics department that had the intention of helping all players (including the longer term veterans) & rest assured had we not had Coppygate, Snitker would have been gone. Remember Hart's tirade on Snitker after a bad game after a John Johnson blown save PR wise they should have been more honest and frank about it, it would have been easier to take. And I sure as hell do not miss squeaky voiced Coppy at all and the double talking of John Hart who to me I just want to throw darts at the TV set every time he comes on And I do not miss being in the bottom five of payroll. Not to mention and will never get why the FO had that thing for Hector Olivera It was three yrs of the Pit of Misery & note that the building blocks (Acuna, Albies and Camargo) were Frank Wren players. Time will evaluate the Coppy/Hart drafts, so far I see one stud in Soroka health permitting. Riley might be very good. Allard might turn into a fair pitcher elsewhere, too early to tell but he did not click here Alex and Snitker gets most of the credit for this turnaround - its about how you handle people and build a culture. The team culture was rudderless under Coppy and he clearly did not know the rules or was blatant and arrogant PR wise the prior duo was an irritant - AA had healed the team culture and its showing on the field and Snitker has done better than he is sometimes given credit for. Who knows what he would have been replaced with No offense, but I don’t get this opinion. I don’t even get why one would even think about forming this opinion. First, nobody will ever know if your right. You will never know if your right. Second, nobody is going to argue that Coppy/Hart would have done better. And if someone did, your debate will go nowhere. Things happened the way they happened and AA has come in and made all of what Coppy/Hart did sting a hell of a lot less. I’m thankful for that. None of that, though, takes away from the good things Coppy/Hart did. |
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Post by keystone61 on Feb 1, 2020 14:30:32 GMT -5
I'll say this. Coppy for life for doing less than the Astros management did. IMO.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Feb 1, 2020 16:56:29 GMT -5
I'll say this. Coppy for life for doing less than the Astros management did. IMO. You know why Coppy got banned? He got banned because when he was sitting in front of the Commish and Torre, with all the evidence laid bare, in front of him, he looked them dead in the eyes and lied; telling them that he was innocent. That’s what got him banned for life. |
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Post by keystone61 on Feb 1, 2020 19:26:32 GMT -5
I'll say this. Coppy for life for doing less than the Astros management did. IMO. You know why Coppy got banned? He got banned because when he was sitting in front of the Commish and Torre, with all the evidence laid bare, in front of him, he looked them dead in the eyes and lied; telling them that he was innocent. That’s what got him banned for life. Well, that would 'splain it. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 22:06:34 GMT -5
I still am not convinced that the Braves would have had the success the last two yrs under the Hart/Coppy duo Alex brought in a new approach in handling and managing people, an analytics department that had the intention of helping all players (including the longer term veterans) & rest assured had we not had Coppygate, Snitker would have been gone. Remember Hart's tirade on Snitker after a bad game after a John Johnson blown save PR wise they should have been more honest and frank about it, it would have been easier to take. And I sure as hell do not miss squeaky voiced Coppy at all and the double talking of John Hart who to me I just want to throw darts at the TV set every time he comes on And I do not miss being in the bottom five of payroll. Not to mention and will never get why the FO had that thing for Hector Olivera It was three yrs of the Pit of Misery & note that the building blocks (Acuna, Albies and Camargo) were Frank Wren players. Time will evaluate the Coppy/Hart drafts, so far I see one stud in Soroka health permitting. Riley might be very good. Allard might turn into a fair pitcher elsewhere, too early to tell but he did not click here Alex and Snitker gets most of the credit for this turnaround - its about how you handle people and build a culture. The team culture was rudderless under Coppy and he clearly did not know the rules or was blatant and arrogant PR wise the prior duo was an irritant - AA had healed the team culture and its showing on the field and Snitker has done better than he is sometimes given credit for. Who knows what he would have been replaced with No offense, but I don’t get this opinion. I don’t even get why one would even think about forming this opinion. First, nobody will ever know if your right. You will never know if your right. Second, nobody is going to argue that Coppy/Hart would have done better. And if someone did, your debate will go nowhere. Things happened the way they happened and AA has come in and made all of what Coppy/Hart did sting a hell of a lot less. I’m thankful for that. None of that, though, takes away from the good things Coppy/Hart did. One thing for sure is that Snitker would have been on his way out. And we do not know how Acuna and Albies would have done under a different clubhouse and manager For the criticism Snitker gets (at least on this fourm) and he can be questioned for the X's and O's one thing he does well is handle people - that goes a long way with young players And Snit was not abashed in dealing with Folty (he rebounded well after being sent down due to his mound meltdown) and rightfully showing up Acuna after his lack of running out a fly ball. Who knows what would have been under another clubhouse In AA I trust, he sure stabilized the organization that is for sure. It worked for the best. We do not know what would have happened but I do not believe we would be as well off under the old regime, and do not tell me Hart knew nothing - I cannot prove anything but how do you not know unless Hart was collecting a nice paycheck asleep at the wheel |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 22:21:53 GMT -5
I'll say this. Coppy for life for doing less than the Astros management did. IMO. You know why Coppy got banned? He got banned because when he was sitting in front of the Commish and Torre, with all the evidence laid bare, in front of him, he looked them dead in the eyes and lied; telling them that he was innocent. That’s what got him banned for life. Its called arrogance, that is what banned him for life Who knows what went on behind closed doors, but it was enough that he was exited from the game He was not well liked among his peers - not saying that got him banned of course but there is enough info out there if you search that his tactics of doing business were questionable. |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Feb 2, 2020 1:11:28 GMT -5
Pfft on this Snit handling people defense...
He should have addressed Acuña sooner. Acuña really didn't
change after he finally did something.
We don't know if our young players would have fared worse or better
under someone else.
Defending him with this is doing it using a bunch of hypotheticals where you
just assume the narrative you want to believe.
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Post by brady2705 on Feb 2, 2020 10:10:38 GMT -5
Question for the board:
Would you want to trade for Kris Bryant, and if so, what would your max offer be?
For me, I think I've decided Yes. I have a ton of hope/faith in Johan Camargo. I think there's a *possibility* he really turned a corner in late 2019, and he could be one of the better 3B in the game moving forward ... Potentially even better than Bryant.
However ... There's a lot of risk there. And I think with Riley, having Bryant for 2 years allows Riley a solid timeline to mature into the future at 3B. Start in AAA this year, come up to replace an injury in corner OF or corner IF if needed, and be a role player in 2021 as he readies for everyday action in 2022. That timeline works for me. Meanwhile, Bryant gives us a legit WS lineup with much less risk than Camargo or Riley brings.
So for me ... Any trade for Bryant must include Camargo. We can't have 3 MLB third baseman on the club. Then, max Is go is two pitchers -- Wright and Touissant.
Camargo
Wright
Touissant
for
Bryant
1 RF R Acuna
2 2B S Albies
3 1B L Freeman
4 3B R Bryant
5 LF R Ozuna
6 C_ R d'Arnau
7 SS R Swanson
8 PITCHER
9 CF L Inciarte
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Post by keystone61 on Feb 2, 2020 11:02:03 GMT -5
Wright is untouchable for me. He's got TOR potential, and you don't trade that away. Will he ever reach his potential? We don't know, but it's a risk I don't want to take. He's still only 24. deGrom, arguably the best pitcher in the game, didn't make the big leagues until he was 26. You don't give up on guys like that.
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