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Post by keystone61 on Jan 19, 2020 18:25:10 GMT -5
Intangibles between two good guys are a lot closer than between good guys and a total douchebag cancer. So what you're trying to say here is that Joyce has none of the traits Markakis have and is comparable to Puig? Really I already know you will come back and say that's not what you mean, but you certainly are insinuating Kakes has those intangibles and Joyce doesn't. Kakes has more of a history with the franchise than Joyce. Nothing against Joyce but to me, Nick has earned it a little more, especially having gone through the lean times of 2014-2017. I know that probably means nothing to you - bottom line in going with the statistically better player. But I like it that my team thinks that way. It’s old school but I think there is still a place for loyalty in the sport. Loyalty? Screw that! These guys get paid more in a year than most of us will earn in a lifetime. This ain't about loyalty. It's about winning. Markakis has already gotten more opportunity than he deserves in Atlanta. Loyalty. LMAO |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 18:32:38 GMT -5
2019:
Markakis .285/.356/.420/.776 with a 102 wRC+ and a 0.4 WAR in 469 PA's
Joyce .295/.408/.450/.858 with a 128 wRC+ and a 1.2 WAR in 238 PA's (half as many)
Not even close. And Joyce is a better defensive player at this point.
Where are you getting your WAR numbers? Cause according to Baseball Reference, the WARs were 0.9 (Joyce) and 0.8 (Nick) in 2019. And going back several years, it’s been: 2018 - 0.1 vs. 2.6 2017 - 1.8 vs. 0.6 2016 - 1.7 for both 2015 - -1.0 vs. 1.7 2014 - 1.3 vs. 1.8 2013 - 1.3 vs. 0.1 2012 - 2.1 vs. 1.7 The metrics seem to indicate that there isn’t much difference. I could have lived with Joyce and not Nick, or vice versa. Either way, we’d get about the same production. Just reading back over some posts.......I got my WAR numbers from Fangraphs, I use them because it's so much easier for me to navigate to look at more things.
I don't know which site should be considered more accurate, if either, to be honest.
Fangraphs does show Nick has given us 6.2 WAR in 5 seasons. That's the most overrated 1.2 WAR player evar!  |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 19, 2020 18:48:33 GMT -5
Rewarding worse players with a roster spot because of
some imagined debt we owe them over better players is
the type of thing that keeps organizations from winning
championships.
Not that a championship hinges on Markakis vs Joyce, but
it indicates a way of thinking that just isn't the sort of thing
that wins you more ballgames.
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 19, 2020 19:06:03 GMT -5
I don't mean to be harsh, but what little loyalty there is in sports (and there's very little and rightfully so) is reserved for the superstar, franchise type player, not every day good players like Nick Markakis. His presence on our roster has become a real burr under the saddle for me. I've got nothing against the guy. All indications are that he's a fine human being, but this ain't about his character. It's about what he can do to help this team win a championship. We could just do so much better.......and we refuse.
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Post by wncbravesfan on Jan 19, 2020 19:11:59 GMT -5
I don't mean to be harsh, but what little loyalty there is in sports (and there's very little and rightfully so) is reserved for the superstar, franchise type player, not every day good players like Nick Markakis. His presence on our roster has become a real burr under the saddle for me. I've got nothing against the guy. All indications are that he's a fine human being, but this ain't about his character. It's about what he can do to help this team win a championship. We could just do so much better.......and we refuse. I agree. Nick's time has passed. |
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 19, 2020 19:17:41 GMT -5
An outfielder who hits 9 homers in over 400 at bats in the year of the home run had better be a very dynamic player on defense and on the bases, and he is neither. He's a dinosaur, so yes, his time has passed.
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Cheaters2
Low A Farmhand
Is really CheatersRus
All Seeing
Posts: 762
Likes: 55
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Post by Cheaters2 on Jan 19, 2020 20:08:19 GMT -5
Career averages: (AVG/OBP/OPS)
Castellanos: .277/.326/.797
Ozuna: .272/.329/.784
Puig: .277/.348/.823
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Post by mauibravefan on Jan 19, 2020 20:27:22 GMT -5
Pulpit prevalence
Markakis and. Camargo
Hullabaloo need?
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 20:35:27 GMT -5
Career averages: (AVG/OBP/OPS) Castellanos: .277/.326/.797 Ozuna: .272/.329/.784 Puig: .277/.348/.823 Last two years:
Castellanos .294/.346/.513/.858 126 wRC+
Ozuna .263/.327/.452/.779 108 wrC+
Pweeg .267/.327/.473/.800 110 wRC+ (plus H.O.F. headcase element)
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 20, 2020 8:38:01 GMT -5
I know that almost everybody here is against a Puig signing, and I get it. Hell, I feel the same way. I do wonder, though, if maybe this organization NEEDS a little of that Puig mentality to take the next step. I'm not saying we do, but I'm bored and the thought crossed my mind. Maybe the Braves are TOO business-like and could use a little Wild Horse in the mix. You can probably sign the guy for 1 year, so that's a plus. Is it worth a gamble?
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 20, 2020 9:26:40 GMT -5
I know that almost everybody here is against a Puig signing, and I get it. Hell, I feel the same way. I do wonder, though, if maybe this organization NEEDS a little of that Puig mentality to take the next step. I'm not saying we do, but I'm bored and the thought crossed my mind. Maybe the Braves are TOO business-like and could use a little Wild Horse in the mix. You can probably sign the guy for 1 year, so that's a plus. Is it worth a gamble? As much as I can't stand the guy, if we could get him for just 2020, his production would outweigh the headaches. I wouldn't stop at just Puig though - I would still make a play for Marte. He's signed through 2021 so that would give Waters time. And hopefully, Pache would be ready by next year when Puig departs.
2020 - Acuna, Marte, Puig 2021 - Marte, Pache, Acuna 2022 - Waters, Pache, Acuna
Lineup for 2020
LF Acuna 2B Albies 1B Freeman RF Puig CF Marte 3B Camargo C d'Arnaud SS Swanson
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 20, 2020 10:32:31 GMT -5
I know that almost everybody here is against a Puig signing, and I get it. Hell, I feel the same way. I do wonder, though, if maybe this organization NEEDS a little of that Puig mentality to take the next step. I'm not saying we do, but I'm bored and the thought crossed my mind. Maybe the Braves are TOO business-like and could use a little Wild Horse in the mix. You can probably sign the guy for 1 year, so that's a plus. Is it worth a gamble? As much as I can't stand the guy, if we could get him for just 2020, his production would outweigh the headaches. I wouldn't stop at just Puig though - I would still make a play for Marte. He's signed through 2021 so that would give Waters time. And hopefully, Pache would be ready by next year when Puig departs.
2020 - Acuna, Marte, Puig 2021 - Marte, Pache, Acuna 2022 - Waters, Pache, Acuna
Lineup for 2020
LF Acuna 2B Albies 1B Freeman RF Puig CF Marte 3B Camargo C d'Arnaud SS Swanson
That sure does strengthen and lengthen your lineup, not to mention the outfield defense (although Ender can obviously hold his own out there with anybody). |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 20, 2020 11:06:35 GMT -5
Have you guys ever thought the same thing about a woman? Hey, maybe if I added a little wild and crazy to my life that would be a good thing. I did. And it was really good for a while then pure torturous disastrous hell after that. Same thing would happen here. The Dodgers couldn’t wait to get rid of the guy. A big no thanks from me.
The psycho factor is cool when you’re a teen or a young adult, but once you’re a responsible grown up, not cool at all. We’re a grown up team ready to compete, we don’t need the disruption.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 20, 2020 11:21:11 GMT -5
Have you guys ever thought the same thing about a woman? Hey, maybe if I added a little wild and crazy to my life that would be a good thing. I did. And it was really good for a while then pure torturous disastrous hell after that. Same thing would happen here. The Dodgers couldn’t wait to get rid of the guy. A big no thanks from me. The psycho factor is cool when you’re a teen or a young adult, but once you’re a responsible grown up, not cool at all. We’re a grown up team ready to compete, we don’t need the disruption. That's why we only proposed one season. I would prefer a guy like Castellanos or even, Ozuna, but they are going to want multiple years. So, are we going to commit to one of them and send one of either Waters or Pache packing? Cause, unless MLB is going to a softball rule of 4 OFs, we would have only one spot left for two players. |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 20, 2020 11:21:49 GMT -5
And I’d like to point out that over the last 5 years Puig has produced a combined 8.5 WAR.
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