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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 19, 2020 17:22:49 GMT -5
2019: Markakis .285/.356/.420/.776 with a 102 wRC+ and a 0.4 WAR in 469 PA's Joyce .295/.408/.450/.858 with a 128 wRC+ and a 1.2 WAR in 238 PA's (half as many) Not even close. And Joyce is a better defensive player at this point.
These guys are the same player!. lolol
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 17:26:46 GMT -5
Stop it with that! No to PWEEG, he's a psycho and I don't want him within 100 miles of our team chemistry! Just say Yas to Puig Cost effective and short term Defender of all
Just say no to Pweeg He is not right in the head Clubhouse cancer guy
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 17:37:01 GMT -5
2019:
Markakis .285/.356/.420/.776 with a 102 wRC+ and a 0.4 WAR in 469 PA's
Joyce .295/.408/.450/.858 with a 128 wRC+ and a 1.2 WAR in 238 PA's (half as many)
Not even close. And Joyce is a better defensive player at this point.
Where are you getting your WAR numbers? Cause according to Baseball Reference, the WARs were 0.9 (Joyce) and 0.8 (Nick) in 2019. And going back several years, it’s been: 2018 - 0.1 vs. 2.6 2017 - 1.8 vs. 0.6 2016 - 1.7 for both 2015 - -1.0 vs. 1.7 2014 - 1.3 vs. 1.8 2013 - 1.3 vs. 0.1 2012 - 2.1 vs. 1.7 The metrics seem to indicate that there isn’t much difference. I could have lived with Joyce and not Nick, or vice versa. Either way, we’d get about the same production. I'm not arguing the last 7 years, they've been fairly comparable players with Joyce just having more power. Joyce has hit 101 HRs during that period in 3041 PA's. Nick has 84 HR's in 5095 PA's during that period. Joyce has a 110 wRC+ during that period and Nick has a 103 wRC+ during that period. And Joyce's defensive numbers are better during that period. Normally I don't cite HRs as making much of a difference, but I think when we're talking about a bench player and possible platoon player it matters a little more, especially for a bench guy. And I think it could be argued that Joyce is more accustomed to that role as well.
But my bigger point was last year they weren't even close to comparable, and I do think it's fair to look at just last year when we're talking about aging bench players.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 17:47:04 GMT -5
By the way, watching the Kansas City Chiefs fans doing the tomahawk chop, I guess no Tennessee players went total vag on them ahead of time.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 19, 2020 17:49:56 GMT -5
Where are you getting your WAR numbers? Cause according to Baseball Reference, the WARs were 0.9 (Joyce) and 0.8 (Nick) in 2019. And going back several years, it’s been: 2018 - 0.1 vs. 2.6 2017 - 1.8 vs. 0.6 2016 - 1.7 for both 2015 - -1.0 vs. 1.7 2014 - 1.3 vs. 1.8 2013 - 1.3 vs. 0.1 2012 - 2.1 vs. 1.7 The metrics seem to indicate that there isn’t much difference. I could have lived with Joyce and not Nick, or vice versa. Either way, we’d get about the same production. I'm not arguing the last 7 years, they've been fairly comparable players with Joyce just having more power. Joyce has hit 101 HRs during that period in 3041 PA's. Nick has 84 HR's in 5095 PA's during that period. Joyce has a 110 wRC+ during that period and Nick has a 103 wRC+ during that period. And Joyce's defensive numbers are better during that period. Normally I don't cite HRs as making much of a difference, but I think when we're talking about a bench player and possible platoon player it matters a little more, especially for a bench guy. And I think it could be argued that Joyce is more accustomed to that role as well.
But my bigger point was last year they weren't even close to comparable, and I do think it's fair to look at just last year when we're talking about aging bench players.
Joyce may be more accustomed to the role, but I think the reason the Braves opted to go with Nick was as much for his intangibles - leadership, clubhouse presence. Now, you will argue that those things don’t matter but if you do, it kind of negates the argument you just made about not signing a guy like Puig.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 17:55:21 GMT -5
I'm not arguing the last 7 years, they've been fairly comparable players with Joyce just having more power. Joyce has hit 101 HRs during that period in 3041 PA's. Nick has 84 HR's in 5095 PA's during that period. Joyce has a 110 wRC+ during that period and Nick has a 103 wRC+ during that period. And Joyce's defensive numbers are better during that period. Normally I don't cite HRs as making much of a difference, but I think when we're talking about a bench player and possible platoon player it matters a little more, especially for a bench guy. And I think it could be argued that Joyce is more accustomed to that role as well.
But my bigger point was last year they weren't even close to comparable, and I do think it's fair to look at just last year when we're talking about aging bench players.
Joyce may be more accustomed to the role, but I think the reason the Braves opted to go with Nick was as much for his intangibles - leadership, clubhouse presence. Now, you will argue that those things don’t matter but if you do, it kind of negates the argument you just made about not signing a guy like Puig. No I think those intangibles do matter quite a bit and I've always acknowledged that, but not enough to make up for the difference I see in the two players performance levels. There's plenty of veteran presents on our team now and even the young guys have a few real good years of experience on them now.
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 19, 2020 17:59:55 GMT -5
The fact of the matter is, the Braves will use any excuse they can find to keep running Markakis out there. It seems that he is more important than the rest of the team, and I really don't understand why. There's any number of things we could do that would help the team more than keeping him, so I don't really know what else to think.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 19, 2020 18:02:22 GMT -5
The fact of the matter is, the Braves will use any excuse they can find to keep running Markakis out there. It seems that he is more important than the rest of the team, and I really don't understand why. There's any number of things we could do that would help the team more than keeping him, so I don't really know what else to think. Fair enough. But if the Braves make no more moves between now and opening day, what’s your starting lineup?
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jan 19, 2020 18:06:03 GMT -5
I'm not arguing the last 7 years, they've been fairly comparable players with Joyce just having more power. Joyce has hit 101 HRs during that period in 3041 PA's. Nick has 84 HR's in 5095 PA's during that period. Joyce has a 110 wRC+ during that period and Nick has a 103 wRC+ during that period. And Joyce's defensive numbers are better during that period. Normally I don't cite HRs as making much of a difference, but I think when we're talking about a bench player and possible platoon player it matters a little more, especially for a bench guy. And I think it could be argued that Joyce is more accustomed to that role as well. But my bigger point was last year they weren't even close to comparable, and I do think it's fair to look at just last year when we're talking about aging bench players.
Joyce may be more accustomed to the role, but I think the reason the Braves opted to go with Nick was as much for his intangibles - leadership, clubhouse presence. Now, you will argue that those things don’t matter but if you do, it kind of negates the argument you just made about not signing a guy like Puig. Intangibles between two good guys are a lot closer than between good guys and a total douchebag cancer. So what you're trying to say here is that Joyce has none of the traits Markakis have and is comparable to Puig? Really I already know you will come back and say that's not what you mean, but you certainly are insinuating Kakes has those intangibles and Joyce doesn't.
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 19, 2020 18:06:38 GMT -5
Acuña Albies Freeman Riley Camargo d'Arnaud Swanson Inciarte
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 18:06:56 GMT -5
One idea if we don't make any more moves is maybe we think Pache could be ready by mid May or June to come up and play CF. If that's the case we'll limp by with what we have and expect him to add a spark. It's also possible if he has a good start in Gwinnett they'll feel more inclined to trade Ender and some other pieces for a guy like Marte or someone else at that point. I don't think Pache is that far away, I'd like to see him get some more AAA ABs but I wouldn't be totally surprised if he's not playing for us by June.
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Post by mauibravefan on Jan 19, 2020 18:14:20 GMT -5
Spreading cheer: On last Monday’s off-day in New York, Yasiel Puig rented a helicopter for a 45-minute ride to the Catskill Mountains to visit Camp Simcha, the only kosher overnight summer camp for children with cancer and other diseases, many of which are terminal. The Cleveland Indians outfielder danced and sang with kids and crowd-surfed through the room. He played catch and tossed batting practice, visited kids in the infirmary and signed dozens of autographs. “Today,” Puig tweeted, “was one of the best days of my life.”
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 19, 2020 18:16:01 GMT -5
Joyce may be more accustomed to the role, but I think the reason the Braves opted to go with Nick was as much for his intangibles - leadership, clubhouse presence. Now, you will argue that those things don’t matter but if you do, it kind of negates the argument you just made about not signing a guy like Puig. Intangibles between two good guys are a lot closer than between good guys and a total douchebag cancer. So what you're trying to say here is that Joyce has none of the traits Markakis have and is comparable to Puig? Really I already know you will come back and say that's not what you mean, but you certainly are insinuating Kakes has those intangibles and Joyce doesn't. Kakes has more of a history with the franchise than Joyce. Nothing against Joyce but to me, Nick has earned it a little more, especially having gone through the lean times of 2014-2017. I know that probably means nothing to you - bottom line in going with the statistically better player. But I like it that my team thinks that way. It’s old school but I think there is still a place for loyalty in the sport.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 18:21:02 GMT -5
Spreading cheer: On last Monday’s off-day in New York, Yasiel Puig rented a helicopter for a 45-minute ride to the Catskill Mountains to visit Camp Simcha, the only kosher overnight summer camp for children with cancer and other diseases, many of which are terminal. The Cleveland Indians outfielder danced and sang with kids and crowd-surfed through the room. He played catch and tossed batting practice, visited kids in the infirmary and signed dozens of autographs. “Today,” Puig tweeted, “was one of the best days of my life.” That's really sweet of him.
Now he's off to fight wild boars with Yoenis Cespedes.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 19, 2020 18:22:24 GMT -5
Intangibles between two good guys are a lot closer than between good guys and a total douchebag cancer. So what you're trying to say here is that Joyce has none of the traits Markakis have and is comparable to Puig? Really I already know you will come back and say that's not what you mean, but you certainly are insinuating Kakes has those intangibles and Joyce doesn't. Kakes has more of a history with the franchise than Joyce. Nothing against Joyce but to me, Nick has earned it a little more, especially having gone through the lean times of 2014-2017. I know that probably means nothing to you - bottom line in going with the statistically better player. But I like it that my team thinks that way. It’s old school but I think there is still a place for loyalty in the sport. I like that concept but I would have liked it more if they made Nick a minor league hitting coach to start out or something when he retires.
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