Cheaters2
Low A Farmhand
Is really CheatersRus
All Seeing
Posts: 762
Likes: 55
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Post by Cheaters2 on Jan 10, 2020 16:45:39 GMT -5
what about Acuna? I would say opening day 2021 our OF will be Acuna Pache and waters. And as much as we need that guy to hit behind Freeman at this point I'd just assume go with the kids and continue the rebuild. It's sad that we have a huge hole at catcher and Grandal was there and we didn't overpay to get him and now we are overpaying for JD who will block 2 young guys I'll be shocked if both Waters and Pache pan out as everyday players by next year. If that happens, it'll be a nice problem to have. I HOPE we have that problem. I believe they both pan out and to be honest I'd go ahead and bring Pache up at start on 2020 and give him CF. Even if he only hits 240 with about 15 home runs I don't think that would be a drop off from Ender from what Ender has shown us the last couple of seasons. |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 10, 2020 17:53:47 GMT -5
Yeah... it was also said Camargo was going to play at least 3-4 times a week. You do realize that he got in 43 of the team's first 56 games, with 3 or more PA in 24 of them, right? And he was batting a robust .213/.261/.324/.585 after those games. Seems like he was given the opportunity - he just didn't make the most of it. If we considered 75 AB's a legitimate "given an opportunity" and applied that to every player in baseball, nobody would have a starting job, because every single player has stretches like he did. Surely you don't think that's a fair sample size to say a guy should be stuck on the bench to rot.
I think you have to also consider what it HAD to do to him mentally to lose his starting job after the season he had in 2018. It likely never crossed his mind before we signed JD that there was any chance he would lose his job. At his age, people are much more likely to really take that hard, to the point of it affecting their performance. That's one of the reasons the organization has gone to such pains to bend over backwards to show Dansby they believe in him and give him such an extended chance to get it together. They know how important confidence is for young players and how important it is to show that guy you believe in him.
Just look at Ender. He has that kind of start to every single season, it lasts 2-3 months, but he was always starting every day no matter what.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 10, 2020 18:32:09 GMT -5
Buying an apple that goes rotten about when you expect it to isn’t the same thing as buying a rotten apple. A $100 million dollar apple shouldn't rot. Ya, that’s never been reality. |
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Post by keystone61 on Jan 10, 2020 18:49:48 GMT -5
I'll be shocked if both Waters and Pache pan out as everyday players by next year. If that happens, it'll be a nice problem to have. I HOPE we have that problem. I believe they both pan out and to be honest I'd go ahead and bring Pache up at start on 2020 and give him CF. Even if he only hits 240 with about 15 home runs I don't think that would be a drop off from Ender from what Ender has shown us the last couple of seasons. You gotta be careful with that, though. You don't wanna destroy his confidence and set him back. If he kicks ass in Spring Training, he might make the cut, but otherwise, I assume he starts the year a Striper. |
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 10, 2020 19:04:08 GMT -5
You do realize that he got in 43 of the team's first 56 games, with 3 or more PA in 24 of them, right? And he was batting a robust .213/.261/.324/.585 after those games. Seems like he was given the opportunity - he just didn't make the most of it. If we considered 75 AB's a legitimate "given an opportunity" and applied that to every player in baseball, nobody would have a starting job, because every single player has stretches like he did. Surely you don't think that's a fair sample size to say a guy should be stuck on the bench to rot.
I think you have to also consider what it HAD to do to him mentally to lose his starting job after the season he had in 2018. It likely never crossed his mind before we signed JD that there was any chance he would lose his job. At his age, people are much more likely to really take that hard, to the point of it affecting their performance. That's one of the reasons the organization has gone to such pains to bend over backwards to show Dansby they believe in him and give him such an extended chance to get it together. They know how important confidence is for young players and how important it is to show that guy you believe in him.
Just look at Ender. He has that kind of start to every single season, it lasts 2-3 months, but he was always starting every day no matter what.
He had 115 plate appearances through May. Seems about right for a bench player. Hate it that he lost his job to JD and that Nick outplayed him the first two months. Maybe he’ll be given more of a chance if we don’t resign JD. And maybe he’ll be more like the player he was in 2018. That would be best for the Braves. But if he was butt hurt and couldn’t make the adjustment from everyday player to role player, why is it the team’s fault for not sticking with him? |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 10, 2020 19:23:16 GMT -5
If we considered 75 AB's a legitimate "given an opportunity" and applied that to every player in baseball, nobody would have a starting job, because every single player has stretches like he did. Surely you don't think that's a fair sample size to say a guy should be stuck on the bench to rot.
I think you have to also consider what it HAD to do to him mentally to lose his starting job after the season he had in 2018. It likely never crossed his mind before we signed JD that there was any chance he would lose his job. At his age, people are much more likely to really take that hard, to the point of it affecting their performance. That's one of the reasons the organization has gone to such pains to bend over backwards to show Dansby they believe in him and give him such an extended chance to get it together. They know how important confidence is for young players and how important it is to show that guy you believe in him.
Just look at Ender. He has that kind of start to every single season, it lasts 2-3 months, but he was always starting every day no matter what.
He had 115 plate appearances through May. Seems about right for a bench player. Hate it that he lost his job to JD and that Nick outplayed him the first two months. Maybe he’ll be given more of a chance if we don’t resign JD. And maybe he’ll be more like the player he was in 2018. That would be best for the Braves. But if he was butt hurt and couldn’t make the adjustment from everyday player to role player, why is it the team’s fault for not sticking with him? We don't know the degree to which it bothered him, maybe he wasn't hurt much by it, I just said it could expected.......but maybe he wasn't bothered and he just went through a slump. His swing did get messed up, it wouldn't be unheard of for a guy not playing all that much, even moreso for a switch hitter who needs to work on two swings all the time. The bottom line is it's not a significant sample size to say the guy was given a fair chance at the start of 2019. Especially after he had proven in 800 PA's over the the prior two seasons that he was a very good major league hitter. By the end of 2018 He had an OPS of .800, a 110 wRC+ and a batting average over .280. He had taken advantage of actual opportunities and proven himself in those 800 PA's. 75 AB's or 115 AB's isn't even to wipe out those previous 800. |
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jan 10, 2020 19:45:32 GMT -5
Bottom line is that we shouldn’t have signed JD. It messed Camargo up and has us in a position where we are now going to have to overpay for a 3B who won’t be worth his salt after two years of a four year deal.
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Cheaters2
Low A Farmhand
Is really CheatersRus
All Seeing
Posts: 762
Likes: 55
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Post by Cheaters2 on Jan 10, 2020 20:16:33 GMT -5
Why not just go with a one yr deal on a veteran power hitter and use the JD money in 21 to overpay if that is what it takes to get JT Realmuto.
2021
Acuna
Albies
Freeman
Realmuto
Riley/camargo
Waters
Swanson
Pache
That's pretty strong and the only one who would be on downhill side would be Freeman
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 10, 2020 20:26:15 GMT -5
Bottom line is that we shouldn’t have signed JD. It messed Camargo up and has us in a position where we are now going to have to overpay for a 3B who won’t be worth his salt after two years of a four year deal. I don't agree with that. JD did give us a really solid year. The solution to giving Camargo a fair chance was to play him more steadily all over the field, which would have helped rest the players as well. And I don't think we're stuck now in a spot where we have to sign any 3B or trade for any 3B. In my opinion anyway. They worked on Camargo's swing when he went to Gwinnett and it paid off big time, he looked completely different when he came up to the big club, he had 2 HRs and 2 doubles in 11 ABs when he came back to the Braves in September. And a bigger point to me is that we don't have to put it all on him in 2020, we also have Riley. I still believe in Riley's potential and just feel like one or both of those guys can step up. |
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Post by Drkirby on Jan 10, 2020 20:47:12 GMT -5
Bottom line is that we shouldn’t have signed JD. It messed Camargo up and has us in a position where we are now going to have to overpay for a 3B who won’t be worth his salt after two years of a four year deal. I don't agree with that. JD did give us a really solid year. The solution to giving Camargo a fair chance was to play him more steadily all over the field, which would have helped rest the players as well. And I don't think we're stuck now in a spot where we have to sign any 3B or trade for any 3B. In my opinion anyway. They worked on Camargo's swing when he went to Gwinnett and it paid off big time, he looked completely different when he came up to the big club, he had 2 HRs and 2 doubles in 11 ABs when he came back to the Braves in September. And a bigger point to me is that we don't have to put it all on him in 2020, we also have Riley. I still believe in Riley's potential and just feel like one or both of those guys can step up. Really don’t think it’s a stretch to say Camargo May outplay JD over life of deal. |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 10, 2020 22:15:25 GMT -5
I don't agree with that. JD did give us a really solid year. The solution to giving Camargo a fair chance was to play him more steadily all over the field, which would have helped rest the players as well. And I don't think we're stuck now in a spot where we have to sign any 3B or trade for any 3B. In my opinion anyway. They worked on Camargo's swing when he went to Gwinnett and it paid off big time, he looked completely different when he came up to the big club, he had 2 HRs and 2 doubles in 11 ABs when he came back to the Braves in September. And a bigger point to me is that we don't have to put it all on him in 2020, we also have Riley. I still believe in Riley's potential and just feel like one or both of those guys can step up. Really don’t think it’s a stretch to say Camargo May outplay JD over life of deal. To me that's a real stretch, it would depend on JD's health, because if he stays healthy he's probably going to be really good still. And Camargo would need to play every day to have a chance, and I don't see that happening unless we have several injuries or he gets traded. |
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 11, 2020 1:37:28 GMT -5
Bottom line is that we shouldn’t have signed JD. It messed Camargo up and has us in a position where we are now going to have to overpay for a 3B who won’t be worth his salt after two years of a four year deal. Shouldn’t have signed a guy that accrued 6.1 fWAR? That’s hilarious. |
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 11, 2020 1:39:08 GMT -5
I don't agree with that. JD did give us a really solid year. The solution to giving Camargo a fair chance was to play him more steadily all over the field, which would have helped rest the players as well. And I don't think we're stuck now in a spot where we have to sign any 3B or trade for any 3B. In my opinion anyway. They worked on Camargo's swing when he went to Gwinnett and it paid off big time, he looked completely different when he came up to the big club, he had 2 HRs and 2 doubles in 11 ABs when he came back to the Braves in September. And a bigger point to me is that we don't have to put it all on him in 2020, we also have Riley. I still believe in Riley's potential and just feel like one or both of those guys can step up. Really don’t think it’s a stretch to say Camargo May outplay JD over life of deal. What deal? The possible 4-year deal? You have to be kidding. I like Camargo as much as the next guy, but he’s not on JD’s level, even at JD’s current age. |
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jan 11, 2020 1:40:15 GMT -5
Really don’t think it’s a stretch to say Camargo May outplay JD over life of deal. To me that's a real stretch, it would depend on JD's health, because if he stays healthy he's probably going to be really good still. And Camargo would need to play every day to have a chance, and I don't see that happening unless we have several injuries or he gets traded. I agree with you, to a point. Even if Camargo plays every day, I sincerely doubt he matches JD’s production, all things being equal. |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jan 11, 2020 2:30:16 GMT -5
To me that's a real stretch, it would depend on JD's health, because if he stays healthy he's probably going to be really good still. And Camargo would need to play every day to have a chance, and I don't see that happening unless we have several injuries or he gets traded. I agree with you, to a point. Even if Camargo plays every day, I sincerely doubt he matches JD’s production, all things being equal. Not if JD's healthy. I think if Camargo played every day he would consistently be a 2-4 WAR player and JD is clearly a 5-8 WAR player if healthy. The only other variable that could bring JD down would be him possibly developing an issue catching up to the fastball as the years go by, that's fairly common after guys are past their prime. Already happening to Godlschmidt at 32. |
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