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Post by Fumbduckery on Dec 20, 2018 12:00:57 GMT -5
We actually wanted to extend Heyward, I guess 6 years, like we did McCann, but he was set on free agency all along. So we didn't so much choose Freeman over Heyward, Heyward just chose free agency over us and forced our hand so we traded him to get something in return. We all knew all along the Braves weren't going to pony up the kind of money Heyward was going to get if he went to free agency.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Dec 20, 2018 12:06:12 GMT -5
In looking back at McCann's career, I don't recall him doing a 4 game rehab at single A ball, but it's in his stats. He had 1 2B, 3 HR and 7 RBI's. His wRC+ was 307 and his OPS was 1.509. He had to be like man, I'd like to stay here all season and see what kind of numbers I could put up!
I'm really glad we didn't trade anything to get him back, I was sure squirming when there was talk of us trading prospects for him last year....
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akod
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Post by akod on Dec 20, 2018 12:40:49 GMT -5
Frenchy and Heyward both turned down the 6 year deals. So both our first rounders were pretty meh while both the second rounders in those same years are some of the best Braves ever.
It’s a wonder why I want to keep our second rounder this year...
And before you say those are isolated incidents, half our second rounders have become major leaguers since 2000.
Edit: next year it would cost us a 3rd rounder instead to sign Bum or someone else (assuming they are not traded mid season which negates getting a qualifying offer). The chance a third rounder becomes a big leaguer is substantially less than second rounder. I could live with that. Take Donaldson’s funds and obviously more to get Bumgarner and we will finally have our Ace so the conversation can return to our lack of power in the lineup. Because you know that has to be brought up on this bored constantly.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Dec 20, 2018 13:09:44 GMT -5
Frenchy and Heyward both turned down the 6 year deals. So both our first rounders were pretty meh while both the second rounders in those same years are some of the best Braves ever. It’s a wonder why I want to keep our second rounder this year... And before you say those are isolated incidents, half our second rounders have become major leaguers since 2000. Edit: next year it would cost us a 3rd rounder instead to sign Bum or someone else (assuming they are not traded mid season which negates getting a qualifying offer). The chance a third rounder becomes a big leaguer is substantially less than second rounder. I could live with that. Take Donaldson’s funds and obviously more to get Bumgarner and we will finally have our Ace so the conversation can return to our lack of power in the lineup. Because you know that has to be brought up on this bored constantly. I agree with all of that, even the signing of MadBum after this season.
A funny thing about a "lack of power" argument, which I see on many teams forums.....everybody wants a guy to bat 4th who is going to hit 40+ HR's, and I have not understood that line of thinking for a long time. A guy like Gallo, Who does nothing else for you. Baseball is evolving away from that, and I like where we stand. I said before last season I'd rather have 7 guys hit 15+ HRs each in my lineup than one or two guys hitting 30 or 40+. That balance means so much more to consistency. We were 19th in all of baseball in HR's last year, but we were 11th overall in OPS, which I think is more important.
We had guys who hit 26, 24, 23, 19, 14, 14, 12 and 12 HR's, so we weren't that far off. If Donaldson stays healthy this year we should do even better, and then if Riley pans out we should be set when it comes to the power side of things as far as I'm concerned.
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akod
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Post by akod on Dec 20, 2018 14:40:19 GMT -5
Can I go off my rocker for a minute?
Here is my Christmas list:
Kris Bryant for Folty, Ender, O’Day, and Riley
Greinke, Ray, and Peralta for Fried, Allard, and Julio
Realmuto for Newk and Flowers
This would require an approval for about an extra 11 mil to spend, this has been done before with Santana.
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Post by mauibravefan on Dec 20, 2018 14:49:53 GMT -5
Frenchy and Heyward both turned down the 6 year deals. So both our first rounders were pretty meh while both the second rounders in those same years are some of the best Braves ever. It’s a wonder why I want to keep our second rounder this year... And before you say those are isolated incidents, half our second rounders have become major leaguers since 2000. Edit: next year it would cost us a 3rd rounder instead to sign Bum or someone else (assuming they are not traded mid season which negates getting a qualifying offer). The chance a third rounder becomes a big leaguer is substantially less than second rounder. I could live with that. Take Donaldson’s funds and obviously more to get Bumgarner and we will finally have our Ace so the conversation can return to our lack of power in the lineup. Because you know that has to be brought up on this bored constantly. I agree with all of that, even the signing of MadBum after this season.
A funny thing about a "lack of power" argument, which I see on many teams forums.....everybody wants a guy to bat 4th who is going to hit 40+ HR's, and I have not understood that line of thinking for a long time. A guy like Gallo, Who does nothing else for you. Baseball is evolving away from that, and I like where we stand. I said before last season I'd rather have 7 guys hit 15+ HRs each in my lineup than one or two guys hitting 30 or 40+. That balance means so much more to consistency. We were 19th in all of baseball in HR's last year, but we were 11th overall in OPS, which I think is more important.
We had guys who hit 26, 24, 23, 19, 14, 14, 12 and 12 HR's, so we weren't that far off. If Donaldson stays healthy this year we should do even better, and then if Riley pans out we should be set when it comes to the power side of things as far as I'm concerned.
Ochart also predicts that more value will once again be placed on hitters who don't strike out and can't be shifted on, citing Michael Brantley, who recently signed a two-year, $32 million contract with the Houston Astros. The modern-day approach, of selling out with two strikes and lifting every pitch, might be fading. "Hitting shifted, and guys started to do that, and they started to swing up and try to hit the ball high and far, and got rid of two-strike approaches and lengthened their swings and stuff like that, and then pitching combated by throwing harder, throwing higher fastballs, and getting more swing and misses," said Ochart, who recently accepted a job as a consultant for a major league team. "I think maybe the pendulum swung a little too far, and it might swing back in the other direction."Jason Ochart -- the director of hitting at Driveline Baseball, an innovative, data-driven development program located about 20 miles south of Seattle -- has noticed an acceleration in innovative thinking from teams this offseason. |
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Post by keystone61 on Dec 20, 2018 16:34:12 GMT -5
Can I go off my rocker for a minute? Here is my Christmas list: Kris Bryant for Folty, Ender, O’Day, and Riley Greinke, Ray, and Peralta for Fried, Allard, and Julio Realmuto for Newk and Flowers This would require an approval for about an extra 11 mil to spend, this has been done before with Santana. Great idea. This way, we can give away our present AND our future! |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Dec 20, 2018 16:58:03 GMT -5
Can I go off my rocker for a minute? Here is my Christmas list: Kris Bryant for Folty, Ender, O’Day, and Riley Greinke, Ray, and Peralta for Fried, Allard, and Julio Realmuto for Newk and Flowers This would require an approval for about an extra 11 mil to spend, this has been done before with Santana. Great idea. This way, we can give away our present AND our future! At least he did say he was off his rocker.  |
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akod
Low A Farmhand
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Post by akod on Dec 20, 2018 17:20:41 GMT -5
Can I go off my rocker for a minute? Here is my Christmas list: Kris Bryant for Folty, Ender, O’Day, and Riley Greinke, Ray, and Peralta for Fried, Allard, and Julio Realmuto for Newk and Flowers This would require an approval for about an extra 11 mil to spend, this has been done before with Santana. Great idea. This way, we can give away our present AND our future! Oh come on we would still have Pache, Waters, Gohara, Anderson, Wright, Wilson, Soroka, Contreras, Jenista, Touki, and 2 first round picks coming in June. Decent future. 1 year we would have Donaldson 2 years Peralta, Ray, and Realmuto 3 years Bryant, Greinke, and Freeman Pretty sick present. Acuna Donaldson Freeman Bryant Peralta Realmuto Albies Swanson Camargo super utility You sacrifice outfield defense a bit but the infield becomes even better with Realmuto and Donaldson. Allowing Camargo to fill in anywhere providing top notch D as well. Only dip will be when McCann starts. Offense is the best in the land. Greinke Ray Gausman Soroka Touki Pretty solid top 3 with an offense to help the youngsters. Gotta play them at some point. |
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Post by keystone61 on Dec 20, 2018 21:51:41 GMT -5
Great idea. This way, we can give away our present AND our future! At least he did say he was off his rocker. True dat. |
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Post by keystone61 on Dec 20, 2018 21:57:28 GMT -5
Great idea. This way, we can give away our present AND our future! Oh come on we would still have Pache, Waters, Gohara, Anderson, Wright, Wilson, Soroka, Contreras, Jenista, Touki, and 2 first round picks coming in June. Decent future. 1 year we would have Donaldson 2 years Peralta, Ray, and Realmuto 3 years Bryant, Greinke, and Freeman Pretty fracking sick present. Acuna Donaldson Freeman Bryant Peralta Realmuto Albies Swanson Camargo super utility You sacrifice outfield defense a bit but the infield becomes even better with Realmuto and Donaldson. Allowing Camargo to fill in anywhere providing top notch D as well. Only dip will be when McCann starts. Offense is the best in the land. Greinke Ray Gausman Soroka Touki Pretty solid top 3 with an offense to help the youngsters. Gotta play them at some point. So Bryant in LF? He's not a very good 3rd baseman, so that's probably a good idea. I guess I'm in the minority, but I like Ender. He's a winning player. |
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Dec 20, 2018 22:54:08 GMT -5
You know it's bad when guys are talking themselves into bringing Haywood back.
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akod
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Post by akod on Dec 20, 2018 22:59:26 GMT -5
Bryant in left. I view Pache as an Ender with even more potential offensively.
Of course I’m always on board with going young. MLB trade rumors seems to think Tucker can be had from the Astros. What could we give up to make that happen? Newk? I’ve read 67 surplus for Tucker before last season, Newk at 65. Still Tucker hasn’t had major league success yet so we ask for more. Tucker, Albies, Acuna, Riley, Pache, and a slew of pitchers would be controllable for quite some time. Really frees up some money.
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jryanw
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Post by jryanw on Dec 23, 2018 8:23:52 GMT -5
You know it's bad when guys are talking themselves into bringing Haywood back. Right? He's the last player I ever want to see wearing the braves uniform again. |
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peteorr
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Post by peteorr on Dec 23, 2018 17:01:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't necessarily say no to Heyward. I'm sure the Cubs are eager to trade him. What's their asking price? Pretty much every free agent outfielder either hasn't been good or is a bounce back candidate. The Braves aren't getting Harper. The Braves didn't sign Brantley because they were concerned about his health. That probably means they are out on Pollock unless his asking price drops (it is said to be high right now). I assume many of you would like to have Haniger and I would too. The prospect cost if he is indeed available would be quite high.
So if you don't want Heyward you are looking at players who all have flaws: Markakis (old and didn't play well in the second half), Garcia (only had one good season), Cargo (older and not the same player he used to be), Marwin Gonzalez (only one standout season, should probably remain utility player), Austin Jackson (Turns 32 soon and hasn't had a good season since 2013), Adam Jones (33 and hasn't had a good season since 2015), Parra (hasn't been good since 2013), Span (35 before the season starts, speed doesn't age well, poor defense in 2018, hasn't been good since 2014). These are the notable free agents as far as I can tell.
I like Heyward more than the available free agents. Heyward still has youth on his side. I'd take Puig over Heyward. Are the Reds trading him? Who are the other outfielders available via trade? I am now working under the assumption that people will be mad no matter how the Braves end up filling the remaining outfield spot.
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