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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jul 31, 2018 19:33:40 GMT -5
I'm assuming prospects would be traded. The rotation is beginning to round into shape with Folty and Newk taking a step forward, the acquisition of Gausman, and guys like Soroka, Fried, Allard, Touki, Wilson, and Wright right around the corner, or already making contributions. There are still quite a few prospects the Braves could trade and still be legit contenders for the next 5 or 6 years. All I'm saying is that at a certain point pitchers are going to get traded. The Braves have too many, pitching too well. They can't have an 8-man rotation. I agree, hell we HAVE to trade some of these guys, but I think there's several better ways to use them than to try to upgrade Camargo. Mainly OF. And I'm not opposed to moving Ender and even Dansby of course and adding two really good outfielders. Throw in a couple good prospects and we could get a couple of nice players. I'm all for keeping Camargo, but would you really turn down a massive upgrade in favor of Camargo if the deal presented itself? I wouldn't.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 31, 2018 19:33:44 GMT -5
In fairness to me, I never ever claimed that Dansby was definitely going to be better than Camargo--my point all along was that a guy should be given some time before judgments are made, and I still stand by that. I said many times I thought Dansby should be given two full years before we start drawing conclusions. And we're at that point now, and he's been the 5th worst hitter in all of baseball over the last two years now. They gave Dansby the job, and I can respect them trying to give him every chance because they believed in him. But I feel we've reached a point where it's time to put our best players out there, period, and that does not include Mr. Dansby right now.
And I'll also point out that two years might not be a fair enough period either. Dansby could prove to be a good hitter some day down the road, there's just no sign of it at all right now.
And Like I said then Dansby may end up a good player but I think Camargo works harder to be better and thus will remain better. the 15lbs of muscle has made a huge difference. I also think Reed should have been given a better look when he was up he should have platooned with Ender. I think the added muscle has made him a better player than he was in Milwaukee . I have never understood why anyone would assume they know that one player is working harder than any other player despite what you think you might see. None of us know what's going on behind the scenes. I think Dansby has put in plenty of effort, he may just not have the ability to learn to recognize the breaking balls. A lot of times he looks like he's pressing too much and being hard on himself, and it's obvious at times he's thinking too much in the batter's box. To me those are all signs of a guy working hard. Camargo has worked really hard, but I can't say I know it's harder than Dansby has worked. I like the simplicity in Caamrgo's swing--there's nothing complicated about his hitting, that should translate into him avoiding slumps and getting out of them quicker. Very nice fundamentally sound swing. I'm convinced we could count on him to produce enough offense to be a good SS for us, especially when you throw in his defense.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jul 31, 2018 19:34:45 GMT -5
I’m on record for Camargo>Swanson for eternity now, and finally people are climbing aboard my bandwagonI nope, I was being called names and told how stupid I was by nightman and Uckery long before anyone else over saying Camargo was better. but at least uckery has come around. Night still loves the flo most i think and still thinks Harper is the 2nd coming of babe ruth lol It's easy to proclaim an underdog is better than the struggling favorite. It's harder to stick by the guy who's struggling.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 31, 2018 20:11:27 GMT -5
I agree, hell we HAVE to trade some of these guys, but I think there's several better ways to use them than to try to upgrade Camargo. Mainly OF. And I'm not opposed to moving Ender and even Dansby of course and adding two really good outfielders. Throw in a couple good prospects and we could get a couple of nice players. I'm all for keeping Camargo, but would you really turn down a massive upgrade in favor of Camargo if the deal presented itself? I wouldn't. Who would be a massive upgrade? He's basically about the 7th or 8th best middle infielder in baseball offensively, and has to be around 5th or so defensively. Are any of those guys who are better even available, and again, is it even necessary? Why waste any good pieces to upgrade a position you are solid at? If we filled 3rd, OF, C and possibly an ace nicely and still had pieces left over to upgrade over Camargo significantly, I'd be all for it. I just don't see it as a top 3-4 priority.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jul 31, 2018 20:17:33 GMT -5
I'm all for keeping Camargo, but would you really turn down a massive upgrade in favor of Camargo if the deal presented itself? I wouldn't. Who would be a massive upgrade? He's basically about the 7th or 8th best middle infielder in baseball offensively, and has to be around 5th or so defensively. Are any of those guys who are better even available, and again, is it even necessary? Why waste any good pieces to upgrade a position you are solid at? If we filled 3rd, OF, C and possibly an ace nicely and still had pieces left over to upgrade over Camargo significantly, I'd be all for it. I just don't see it as a top 3-4 priority. I think Camargo has had a good year, but has he really been so good that you're ready to scratch of SS for the next 5 years?
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Post by Drkirby on Jul 31, 2018 21:31:56 GMT -5
I agree, hell we HAVE to trade some of these guys, but I think there's several better ways to use them than to try to upgrade Camargo. Mainly OF. And I'm not opposed to moving Ender and even Dansby of course and adding two really good outfielders. Throw in a couple good prospects and we could get a couple of nice players. I'm all for keeping Camargo, but would you really turn down a massive upgrade in favor of Camargo if the deal presented itself? I wouldn't. How about an upgrade over dansby? That’s camargo and Culberson. HeLLO
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 31, 2018 22:46:31 GMT -5
Who would be a massive upgrade? He's basically about the 7th or 8th best middle infielder in baseball offensively, and has to be around 5th or so defensively. Are any of those guys who are better even available, and again, is it even necessary? Why waste any good pieces to upgrade a position you are solid at? If we filled 3rd, OF, C and possibly an ace nicely and still had pieces left over to upgrade over Camargo significantly, I'd be all for it. I just don't see it as a top 3-4 priority. I think Camargo has had a good year, but has he really been so good that you're ready to scratch of SS for the next 5 years? Beyond any doubt in my mind. The guy is a player. With the bat and in the field. He has such a simple and fundamentally solid swing, yes. He looks better on a daily basis than Dansby has ever looked at his best. Which, unfortunately, his best has been a few rare spurts. I'd be totally fine with expecting Camargo to continue this. He's put up numbers last year and this year that put him in the top 7-8 either at SS or 2B on both sides of the ball. I like that a lot.
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Post by Drkirby on Jul 31, 2018 22:49:55 GMT -5
I think Camargo has had a good year, but has he really been so good that you're ready to scratch of SS for the next 5 years? Beyond any doubt in my mind. The guy is a player. With the bat and in the field. He has such a simple and fundamentally solid swing, yes. He looks better on a daily basis than Dansby has ever looked at his best. Which, unfortunately, his best has been a few rare spurts. I'd be totally fine with expecting Camargo to continue this. He's put up numbers last year and this year that put him in the top 7-8 either at SS or 2B on both sides of the ball. I like that a lot. Welcome to the wagon my friend
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Aug 1, 2018 0:24:19 GMT -5
I think Camargo has had a good year, but has he really been so good that you're ready to scratch of SS for the next 5 years? Beyond any doubt in my mind. The guy is a player. With the bat and in the field. He has such a simple and fundamentally solid swing, yes. He looks better on a daily basis than Dansby has ever looked at his best. Which, unfortunately, his best has been a few rare spurts. I'd be totally fine with expecting Camargo to continue this. He's put up numbers last year and this year that put him in the top 7-8 either at SS or 2B on both sides of the ball. I like that a lot. Let me be clear, if it means trading for a more proven SS or 2B-man by trading Swanson and/or Riley, and having Camargo play 3rd, I'm perfectly fine with that. I like Riley's promise, but I'm not going to deny what Camargo has done so far has exceeded expectations. My concern is whether or not it's sustainable. Just like I wasn't ready to write off Swanson, because of his SSS. I'm not ready to hand Camargo the crown with an equal SSS.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 1, 2018 0:42:21 GMT -5
Beyond any doubt in my mind. The guy is a player. With the bat and in the field. He has such a simple and fundamentally solid swing, yes. He looks better on a daily basis than Dansby has ever looked at his best. Which, unfortunately, his best has been a few rare spurts. I'd be totally fine with expecting Camargo to continue this. He's put up numbers last year and this year that put him in the top 7-8 either at SS or 2B on both sides of the ball. I like that a lot. Let me be clear, if it means trading for a more proven SS or 2B-man by trading Swanson and/or Riley, and having Camargo play 3rd, I'm perfectly fine with that. I like Riley's promise, but I'm not going to deny what Camargo has done so far has exceeded expectations. My concern is whether or not it's sustainable. Just like I wasn't ready to write off Swanson, because of his SSS. I'm not ready to hand Camargo the crown with an equal SSS. I get what you're saying, and I'm not trying to say I'm right, I'm just saying that personally I feel comfortable with Camargo's sustainability. He has a sound swing, I'm sold.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Aug 1, 2018 1:30:57 GMT -5
Let me be clear, if it means trading for a more proven SS or 2B-man by trading Swanson and/or Riley, and having Camargo play 3rd, I'm perfectly fine with that. I like Riley's promise, but I'm not going to deny what Camargo has done so far has exceeded expectations. My concern is whether or not it's sustainable. Just like I wasn't ready to write off Swanson, because of his SSS. I'm not ready to hand Camargo the crown with an equal SSS. I get what you're saying, and I'm not trying to say I'm right, I'm just saying that personally I feel comfortable with Camargo's sustainability. He has a sound swing, I'm sold. On that note, if you're interested, I've got some beach front property in Idaho for sale.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 1, 2018 1:32:32 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, and I'm not trying to say I'm right, I'm just saying that personally I feel comfortable with Camargo's sustainability. He has a sound swing, I'm sold. On that note, if you're interested, I've got some beach front property in Idaho for sale.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Aug 1, 2018 2:04:06 GMT -5
Don't know if y'all knew this, Dansby Swanson is 9th in Defensive Runs Saved. That's only 1 less than Andrelton Simmons in 61 less innings. Also, after tearing it up his first go around with the Braves, Simmons posted 3 straight years of sub-100 wRC+ production before being traded to the Angels. After one sub-100 wRC+ year for the Angles, Simmons has blossomed into the hitter we see today.
Maybe, we shouldn't be so quick to give up on Swanson. Just sayin'...
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Cheaters2
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Post by Cheaters2 on Aug 1, 2018 6:12:21 GMT -5
And Like I said then Dansby may end up a good player but I think Camargo works harder to be better and thus will remain better. the 15lbs of muscle has made a huge difference. I also think Reed should have been given a better look when he was up he should have platooned with Ender. I think the added muscle has made him a better player than he was in Milwaukee . I have never understood why anyone would assume they know that one player is working harder than any other player despite what you think you might see. None of us know what's going on behind the scenes. I think Dansby has put in plenty of effort, he may just not have the ability to learn to recognize the breaking balls. A lot of times he looks like he's pressing too much and being hard on himself, and it's obvious at times he's thinking too much in the batter's box. To me those are all signs of a guy working hard. Camargo has worked really hard, but I can't say I know it's harder than Dansby has worked. I like the simplicity in Caamrgo's swing--there's nothing complicated about his hitting, that should translate into him avoiding slumps and getting out of them quicker. Very nice fundamentally sound swing. I'm convinced we could count on him to produce enough offense to be a good SS for us, especially when you throw in his defense. As I have stated before it's clear to see. Camargo plays winter ball trying to get better Swanson goes home plays video games with his Buds. Camargo hits the weight room 2 yrs in a row gaining 10 lbs of muscle 1 yr gains % the next. goes from a 5 HR a yr guy to a 20 Hr a yr guy. Swanson Gains no Muscle weight. Camargo shows up early for ST to get work in. Swanson is shown shooting Videos with his HS friends getting an award at his old HS then makes a commercial the day that Camargo is at ST getting extra work in. I am not saying Swanson doesn't work I am saying he isn't 1/3 as good as he believes he is and needs to work Harder. as for the difference in his Defence this yr it's not that he got better its simply that he has stopped trying to make every play a highlight reel play he isnt trying to look so pretty he is playing like he should and I give him credit for it.
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Cheaters2
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Post by Cheaters2 on Aug 1, 2018 6:16:48 GMT -5
I agree, hell we HAVE to trade some of these guys, but I think there's several better ways to use them than to try to upgrade Camargo. Mainly OF. And I'm not opposed to moving Ender and even Dansby of course and adding two really good outfielders. Throw in a couple good prospects and we could get a couple of nice players. I'm all for keeping Camargo, but would you really turn down a massive upgrade in favor of Camargo if the deal presented itself? I wouldn't. The only massive upgrade would be Manny And I am all for signing him . then Camargo becomes a massive Upgrade at SS and Swanson goes.
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