|
Post by keystone61 on Nov 13, 2021 8:59:05 GMT -5
6/$170? If I were the Braves, I'd get really creative with this contract. Backloading, paying him after he's done playing, etc., that type of thing. I mean, if he really wants to be a Brave for life, there's plenty of ways to make that happen. Bruce Sutter In 1984, Sutter signed a six-year contract that paid him $4.8 million. His Braves tenure was highlighted by injuries. Sutter annually receives $1.12 million from the Atlanta Braves and will continue to receive payments until 2022. I still don't understand how that happened. Apparently, the writer doesn't either.
|
|
|
Post by rennymadeit on Nov 13, 2021 11:19:02 GMT -5
6 years $180M Come on Fred. No one is topping that given his age. I think he’s extremely fit and should age well, but still. I thought I was pretty well willing to pay whatever it took, no way it should be more than $30M per year. If he wants to stay in Atlanta that is a super fair price. If that doesn’t work for him I might have to say adios as far as I’m concerned. I agree with those who say it’s more about the number of years than the money in the years. Freddie’s agent will use this offer 6/$200 as an opening for the Braves to counter by adding a year…but only at a reduced amount per year. My feeling has always been that the reason a deal hasn’t been consummated by now is the issue of years…Braves want 5 max..Freddie wants to retire a Brave so it’s 6 or else. The other thing, IMHO, is it’s sort of an ego thing with these large and long contracts …sure, Freddie and everyone else in the world could live comfortably on $27mil per year, but most players want to sign for the ultimate,,, just because they can! Look at me, look at me! Freddie may be a humble guy but his agent will get his client and himself the moon, the stars and the sun…IF he can. I predict the Braves add a year, but only at a reduced price with some creativity with how it’s structured.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 13, 2021 11:32:21 GMT -5
I read an article that suggested we could nontender RR. That would be pretty frustrating. If we dump him and Edgar Santana and end up with a tattered bullpen that will be upsetting. Those two guys are pretty decent bullpen arms. And if we nontender RR that’s one hell of a waste of Bryse Wilson. If he becomes a solid 3 or 4 starter we’ll be griping about that for years.
|
|
|
Post by keystone61 on Nov 13, 2021 11:35:25 GMT -5
I read an article that suggested we could nontender RR. That would be pretty frustrating. If we dump him and Edgar Santana and end up with a tattered bullpen that will be upsetting. Those two guys are pretty decent bullpen arms. And if we nontender RR that’s one hell of a waste of Bryse Wilson. If he becomes a solid 3 or 4 starter we’ll be griping about that for years. I suspect AA would like to have that trade back. It is looking like a mistake. I never really understood it, to be honest, especially after the way we treated Rodriguez.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 13, 2021 14:33:19 GMT -5
From the beginning RR was pitching in the 5th and 6th innings of games. He pitched later in games but only when the other guys needed a rest. He was at the bottom of the depth chart the whole time. Did AA and the managering guy even talk about this ahead of time? Very weird. I remember there was a rumor we were trying to trade Camargo for RR. That makes sense, giving up a guy you have zero plans for. But not a young promising pitcher. Totally bizarre.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 13, 2021 14:47:20 GMT -5
And not that everybody doesn’t already know this, but RR had a 2.68 ERA until the last day of the season, he had a bad game and ended the year at 2.96. He had a rough September but his ERA was still under 4 for the month......and he had a great month of August for us. I don’t know what the problem was. As I pointed out, he was WAY better than Webb all around, and Webb had a 4.50 ERA in September, so none of it makes any sense. I’d love to hear an explanation. I actually recall watching Snitker do an interview after the Brewers series saying he knew RR was disappointed and that he would be on the roster for the next series.....then he wasn’t. He talked about “matchups” and I’d love to hear in detail how a bunch of those guys were better matchups.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 13, 2021 15:00:45 GMT -5
I have to believe with 100% certainty that RR or his agent have told the Braves he does not want to pitch for us again next year. December 1st is the non-tender deadline. “This is the deadline for teams to offer their pre-arbitration and arbitration eligible players a contract for 2022. Players who don’t receive an offer are non-tendered and become free agents. The Braves currently have 13 players who are eligible for salary arbitration this offseason: Orlando Arcia, Johan Camargo, Grant Dayton, Max Fried, Guillermo Heredia, Luke Jackson, Tyler Matzek, A.J. Minter, Sean Newcomb, Austin Riley, Richard Rodriguez, Mike Soroka and Dansby Swanson.” www.talkingchop.com/platform/amp/2021/11/3/22761342/mlb-2021-2022-important-offseason-dates-free-agency-arbitrationIt is an option to also trade those guys before December 1st. That article also mentions that November 19th is the deadline to protect certain players from the rule 5 draft. Waters is our only player eligible and has to be added to the 40 man roster by the 19th to be protected, so somebody will get moved by then.
|
|
|
Post by TomlinFoolery on Nov 13, 2021 16:07:41 GMT -5
RR is the only bungle job by anthopolous. And frankly, it was pretty lousy how they treated him. I can understand if he wanted to high tail it out of here. Losing Wilson may indeed blow up in AA's face, but until m/if rhat happens, I won't bellyache on it. Still got Morton, Fried, Anderson, Soroka(penciled in VERY light lead), and have heard they are looking at Verlander(probably won't get him, but they are looking).
Rest of his moves this year were excellent and winning the world series doesn't happen without them. Heck, winning rhe division probably wouldn't have happened without them. They would have still been playing Heredia, Adrianza, and Almont on a regular basis. That certainly wouldn't have netted a playoff run.
Sometimes ya gotta take risks and trade prospects, but the way they handled RR after trading Wilson is pretty awful.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 16:09:49 GMT -5
If the Braves HAVE to go to plan B and I hope they do not, the best plan B is to trade for Matt Olson and I would offer alot Other teams will offer alot for him and he is controlable for 2 more yrs I would allow them to take as many as 4 players from the farm save for Langeliers, Harris, Elder and Mueller. There might be a couple more guys you positively do not want to trade. I would even let them have Waters and Pache - I like Pache but as mentioned Snitker is not the type of manager who would use a guy like Pache to the best of his abilities. I would even consider moving Rich Rod whom I like but obviously he is not going to be used here. At least not used in the situations we thought he would be when he was traded for. Guess I would offer Waters, Pache, Tucker Davidson and Rich Rod. Throw in Touki or Ynoa if I have to I really hope they do not go something like 4/60 for a declining Anthony Rizzo. I would pass on him and Brandon Belt should take the QO from SF - would not want to give up the draft choice associated with him. I think he will take it. If I was a MLB GM, I would offer to pay your salary if any other team in baseball would give you their GM job......so I could make trades with you.
I'm starting to feel a little concern with Waters because he is so inconsistent and striking out so much, but I have zero doubts about Pache right now, I would not be trading him away, it would be one that would be regretted.
I would rather cough up the extra money for Freddie than give up good players and then try to sign Olson beyond his 3rd year. If he plays at his current level he will not be affordable beyond that third year.
But if 6 years $180M isn't enough to land Freddie I don't have any suggestions. More than that is too much, and trying to acquire Olson is too much. Maybe just sign Julio Franco again and go from there, I don't know. As I see it, you have to give up something to get something. I like Pache but the rest of what I listed is quantity over quality. Any plan B less than Olson is a fail considering who would be replaced. RR does not fit here. Waters and Davidson are questionable and Touki and Ynoa are perpetual projects that a small market team like the A's might think they can fix but we do not have the time here. I hate moving Pache too but come on they do want something for Olson - of course the Plan A would be coughing up the dough for Freddie and my post is pure BS and yap yap which I hope it would be. I am not even sure I would want Waters on the 40 man roster given how much of an epic fail he was last yr. I don't like Waters much anymore. He needs to get better and he is getting worse. I get that you do not like to trade prospects, had you been the GM you would never have given up Alex Jackson for the very useful Adam Duvall and you were not so hot on Joc for Bryse Ball at the time. Different way of looking at the game but as it turned out it worked for 2021.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 16:14:27 GMT -5
I do know this. Liberty Media is gonna do business the way they do business. I don't think sentiment is gonna play a role in this as far as they're concerned. I would imagine that 6/$170 or thereabouts is gonna be their ceiling. I've said it many times. You can't pay a baseball player but so much and still have a winner. There's 25 other players needed to win. We all love Freddie, but we all wanna win more than we love Freddie. One thing we do know is that from what has been reported payroll is not going down So I expect them to make up the spending somewhere to remain competitive if they cannot come to terms with Freddie If a team like the Angels or NYY offer 8 yrs at avv 30 something mil for sure I will understand why LM cannot do that - the business of the game stinks And someone will make one of those kind of offers - it happens more than not as dum as it seems But I will not feel like we are being cheated cause AA will come up with something even if its not right away his record speaks for itself
|
|
|
Post by keystone61 on Nov 13, 2021 17:26:07 GMT -5
If I was a MLB GM, I would offer to pay your salary if any other team in baseball would give you their GM job......so I could make trades with you.
I'm starting to feel a little concern with Waters because he is so inconsistent and striking out so much, but I have zero doubts about Pache right now, I would not be trading him away, it would be one that would be regretted.
I would rather cough up the extra money for Freddie than give up good players and then try to sign Olson beyond his 3rd year. If he plays at his current level he will not be affordable beyond that third year.
But if 6 years $180M isn't enough to land Freddie I don't have any suggestions. More than that is too much, and trying to acquire Olson is too much. Maybe just sign Julio Franco again and go from there, I don't know. As I see it, you have to give up something to get something. I like Pache but the rest of what I listed is quantity over quality. Any plan B less than Olson is a fail considering who would be replaced. RR does not fit here. Waters and Davidson are questionable and Touki and Ynoa are perpetual projects that a small market team like the A's might think they can fix but we do not have the time here. I hate moving Pache too but come on they do want something for Olson - of course the Plan A would be coughing up the dough for Freddie and my post is pure BS and yap yap which I hope it would be. I am not even sure I would want Waters on the 40 man roster given how much of an epic fail he was last yr. I don't like Waters much anymore. He needs to get better and he is getting worse. I get that you do not like to trade prospects, had you been the GM you would never have given up Alex Jackson for the very useful Adam Duvall and you were not so hot on Joc for Bryse Ball at the time. Different way of looking at the game but as it turned out it worked for 2021. Yeah, but you're talking about gutting the system to get a guy for 2 years who will be just as expensive as Freddie afterwards. Makes no sense at all to do that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 20:10:53 GMT -5
Yeah, but you're talking about gutting the system to get a guy for 2 years who will be just as expensive as Freddie afterwards. Makes no sense at all to do that. It depends how you value the players that I listed. Waters, Pache and Davidson are prospects and Ynoa and Touki are guys I would not necessarily call prospects but at this time orginization depth and to me Ynoa and Touki are guys you can find just about anytime. And as for RR, I do not understand why he got buried here especially when you gave up a pitcher who may really be of value in Wilson. I sort of put that on the PC and manager for that underuse though he did have some poor games late in the yr. Y'all could be right on putting on the breaks on Pache - he is the one I do see real talent there. I just see Waters and Davidson as very replaceable commodities. Two yrs down the road we might all just love Christian Pache and what he might bring to the table.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 20:12:51 GMT -5
The dumbest thing about the Bruce Sutter sign was getting into the arrangement of paying this guy 30 yrs after his retirement.
His deal was not the only one done that way - I think the Muts are still paying Bobby Bonilla but that might have expired now not sure
|
|
|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 13, 2021 21:52:25 GMT -5
Freddie wants that 6th year, and I think 6 for 180 is about what it will take.. Get creative if we have to with an option year or something.
As far as Westie's Olson trade.. I'm with Uck. I would augment your salary for you to be someone else's GM so I could have two farm systems.. mine and yours.
What you said you would give up in insane.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 14, 2021 1:51:44 GMT -5
Yeah, but you're talking about gutting the system to get a guy for 2 years who will be just as expensive as Freddie afterwards. Makes no sense at all to do that. Waters, Pache and Davidson are prospects and Ynoa and Touki are guys I would not necessarily call prospects but at this time orginization depth and to me Ynoa and Touki are guys you can find just about anytime. This is classic you. The first three names are "prospects." Which to you means they haven't proven anything yet. But Acuna, Albies, Freeman, Fried, Soroka and Anderson were once just prospects. Just because someone is a "prospect" does not mean they should be readily expendable. And no one their right mind would claim Ynoa is a "guy you can find anytime." He has shown a huge upside and you don't just disregard that because he has struggled at times. He's 23 and has pitched 115 innings in the big leagues. It can be expected that he's going to struggle at times, but he has electric stuff. He did have a 4.05 ERA this season which is not horrific for a guy his age with such little experience.
Two years before he made it to the big leagues Freeman did this in AA ball: .248/.308/.342/.650
You would have been trading him and calling him a prospect, just an expendable guy you can find anytime.
|
|