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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 14, 2021 2:00:46 GMT -5
As I see it, you have to give up something to get something. I like Pache but the rest of what I listed is quantity over quality. Any plan B less than Olson is a fail considering who would be replaced. RR does not fit here. Waters and Davidson are questionable and Touki and Ynoa are perpetual projects that a small market team like the A's might think they can fix but we do not have the time here. I hate moving Pache too but come on they do want something for Olson - of course the Plan A would be coughing up the dough for Freddie and my post is pure BS and yap yap which I hope it would be. I am not even sure I would want Waters on the 40 man roster given how much of an epic fail he was last yr. I don't like Waters much anymore. He needs to get better and he is getting worse. I get that you do not like to trade prospects, had you been the GM you would never have given up Alex Jackson for the very useful Adam Duvall and you were not so hot on Joc for Bryse Ball at the time. Different way of looking at the game but as it turned out it worked for 2021. Yeah, but you're talking about gutting the system to get a guy for 2 years who will be just as expensive as Freddie afterwards. Makes no sense at all to do that. Exactly. After a couple of seasons you're out all those players you traded AND you don't have a first baseman again. Just keep all the players and give Freddie the money and be set for a full 6 years.
And there's no guarantee you're going to get top production out of Olson, he's done this in two of his seasons:
.247/.335/.453/.788
.195/.310/.424/.734
There's no guarantee with Freddie either, but he's never put up numbers anywhere near that and is much more likely to be productive than Olson.
There's no sign of regression with Fredrico, his last six seasons have been insane:
.302/.400/.569/.968
.307/.403/.586/.989
.309/.388/.505/.892
.295/.389/.549/.938
.341/.462/.640/1.102
.300/.393/.503/.896
Career playoffs numbers:
.290/.393/.523/.916
He's been so steadily great it's easy to take him for granted.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 7:48:21 GMT -5
My first priority I do want to see is to keep Freddie for 6 yrs and have said that before - that is what we all want.
I don't think we always appreciate how great he has been and with real longevity like 18 yrs, he has to be Cooperstown worthy. He should get up around 400 plus HRS with the other consistent numbers. I see no reason why he cannot last into his later 30s to even 40 like Chipper
But, if you have to have Plan B and you want something bad enough you got to make an offer that is aggressive enough to get your man and Olson is the one guy that a number of teams will pursue. And some teams will offer two, three or more guys to get it done.
Sure my trade proposal was a bit aggressive but it would get it done if it has to be. Either you want your man or you don't.
As fan trade proposals, most fans propose trying to get something for nothing, I just go the other way cause you have to give up something to get something. And its not like the guys listed are those can't miss types.
Where I disagree with most here is many do overvalue mid tier to fairly good prospects. So its just a different way of looking at the game.
We are a perennial post season team now with a WC to boot. Just Win Now
One thing for certain - we can trust AA to do something that us usually good. A move we might not even expect
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Post by wncbravesfan on Nov 14, 2021 10:11:29 GMT -5
AA needs to settle FF once and for all.
This is getting ridiculous.
The parameters are now set, fill in the blanks and make it happen.
The fear is somebody is going to get pissed and walk away.
The Braves are starting to look foolish.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 14, 2021 11:01:03 GMT -5
My first priority I do want to see is to keep Freddie for 6 yrs and have said that before - that is what we all want. I don't think we always appreciate how great he has been and with real longevity like 18 yrs, he has to be Cooperstown worthy. He should get up around 400 plus HRS with the other consistent numbers. I see no reason why he cannot last into his later 30s to even 40 like Chipper But, if you have to have Plan B and you want something bad enough you got to make an offer that is aggressive enough to get your man and Olson is the one guy that a number of teams will pursue. And some teams will offer two, three or more guys to get it done. Sure my trade proposal was a bit aggressive but it would get it done if it has to be. Either you want your man or you don't. As fan trade proposals, most fans propose trying to get something for nothing, I just go the other way cause you have to give up something to get something. And its not like the guys listed are those can't miss types. Where I disagree with most here is many do overvalue mid tier to fairly good prospects. So its just a different way of looking at the game. We are a perennial post season team now with a WC to boot. Just Win Now One thing for certain - we can trust AA to do something that us usually good. A move we might not even expect Again the issues with Olson is he has had a couple down seasons, and if he does play well after a couple of years you’re out a bunch of good prospects, you can’t sign Olson and you have no first baseman. It’s almost a no brainer, you have to cough up the money for Fred and not worry about a plan B. If they sign him we’re legit contenders for at least 5 years, that brings in money. Just sign him and move on. Some prospects are over valued but you get that with all teams. And some are going to flop, that’s the nature of it. But it doesn’t mean you just toss away a whole bunch. In fact it means you have to hang onto 6 and hope 2-3 make it, and it can be a total crapshoot which ones will and which ones won’t. Riley was just a prospect and struggled and you threw him down the elevator shaft like all the others. One would you would eventually learn. |
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Post by keystone61 on Nov 14, 2021 14:27:09 GMT -5
AA needs to settle FF once and for all. This is getting ridiculous. The parameters are now set, fill in the blanks and make it happen. The fear is somebody is going to get pissed and walk away. The Braves are starting to look foolish. I agree 100%. This should have been done a long time ago. |
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Post by keystone61 on Nov 14, 2021 14:37:27 GMT -5
Waters, Pache and Davidson are prospects and Ynoa and Touki are guys I would not necessarily call prospects but at this time orginization depth and to me Ynoa and Touki are guys you can find just about anytime. This is classic you. The first three names are "prospects." Which to you means they haven't proven anything yet. But Acuna, Albies, Freeman, Fried, Soroka and Anderson were once just prospects. Just because someone is a "prospect" does not mean they should be readily expendable. And no one their right mind would claim Ynoa is a "guy you can find anytime." He has shown a huge upside and you don't just disregard that because he has struggled at times. He's 23 and has pitched 115 innings in the big leagues. It can be expected that he's going to struggle at times, but he has electric stuff. He did have a 4.05 ERA this season which is not horrific for a guy his age with such little experience.
Two years before he made it to the big leagues Freeman did this in AA ball: .248/.308/.342/.650
You would have been trading him and calling him a prospect, just an expendable guy you can find anytime.
It also seems to me that it’s a lot cheaper to hang onto a prospect too long than it is to let go of one too soon. Let a guy go too soon and you can wind up with a lesser player eating up a chunk of salary that could have been used more effectively elsewhere. Hang onto a guy too long and most of the time it doesn’t cost you a whole lot. You’re gonna miss on some guys. That’s business. |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 14, 2021 15:58:30 GMT -5
This is classic you. The first three names are "prospects." Which to you means they haven't proven anything yet. But Acuna, Albies, Freeman, Fried, Soroka and Anderson were once just prospects. Just because someone is a "prospect" does not mean they should be readily expendable. And no one their right mind would claim Ynoa is a "guy you can find anytime." He has shown a huge upside and you don't just disregard that because he has struggled at times. He's 23 and has pitched 115 innings in the big leagues. It can be expected that he's going to struggle at times, but he has electric stuff. He did have a 4.05 ERA this season which is not horrific for a guy his age with such little experience.
Two years before he made it to the big leagues Freeman did this in AA ball: .248/.308/.342/.650
You would have been trading him and calling him a prospect, just an expendable guy you can find anytime.
It also seems to me that it’s a lot cheaper to hang onto a prospect too long than it is to let go of one too soon. Let a guy go too soon and you can wind up with a lesser player eating up a chunk of salary that could have been used more effectively elsewhere. Hang onto a guy too long and most of the time it doesn’t cost you a whole lot. You’re gonna miss on some guys. That’s business. I agree, because everyone knows it’s a crapshoot. If you have six legit prospects and two or three make it, you have some good cost controlled players for a long time, and that’s a win. Because that playing field is the same for every team and they all experience the same thing. If you have an unlimited budget that changes things, but only a couple teams play that way. But by the same token, you also have to go ahead and pay your proven vets or you just become the Pittsburgh Pirates. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2021 16:58:56 GMT -5
But by the same token, you also have to go ahead and pay your proven vets or you just become the Pittsburgh Pirates. That is one thing we will agree on. Pony up the 6th yr and get it done with Freddie that is the best Plan As one poster said, someone is going to be pissed and we all hope this FO does not do that with Freddie of all people. What precedent does that set with future negotiations and this reputation of the org you would PO your best player of the past decade. This has gone on too long. Go to plan B and you are going to have to give up something to get something. Or, do you overpay for a stop gap for a truly declining Anthony Rizzo. That is a bad deal with what his camp is seeking. Or, a cheap deal for a guy like Brad Miller or Mitch Moreland? Pay your man and get it over with |
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Post by keystone61 on Nov 14, 2021 18:34:56 GMT -5
6/$170 is more than halfway between the offer and the counter offer and gives him the extra year he wants. That's over $28 per year. Seems to me that should get it done, and he and his agent can call it a win.
I don’t want him to leave for the biggest contract. I’ll think less of him if he does that, and I don’t want that to happen. I’ve always thought he was different. Maybe he’s not.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 14, 2021 23:14:33 GMT -5
6 for 180
That's what we should be willing to do. If we want to throw 6 for 170 out there then so be it, but I would go 6 for 180 as my best offer. We got great bargains for Acuña and Ozzie, so I think if you look at the aggregate pay for those 3 together then the total outlay for the total production is very doable.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 14, 2021 23:18:28 GMT -5
If the Braves HAVE to go to plan B and I hope they do not, the best plan B is to trade for Matt Olson and I would offer alot Other teams will offer alot for him and he is controlable for 2 more yrs I would allow them to take as many as 4 players from the farm save for Langeliers, Harris, Elder and Mueller. There might be a couple more guys you positively do not want to trade. I would even let them have Waters and Pache - I like Pache but as mentioned Snitker is not the type of manager who would use a guy like Pache to the best of his abilities. I would even consider moving Rich Rod whom I like but obviously he is not going to be used here. At least not used in the situations we thought he would be when he was traded for. Guess I would offer Waters, Pache, Tucker Davidson and Rich Rod. Throw in Touki or Ynoa if I have to I really hope they do not go something like 4/60 for a declining Anthony Rizzo. I would pass on him and Brandon Belt should take the QO from SF - would not want to give up the draft choice associated with him. I think he will take it. Someone not insane suggested Pache and Wright as a viable offer. Your suggestion however... Waters, Pache... and Davidson, and RR, and just throw in Ynoa as well. This is why most ridicule your suggestions. They are just absurd. |
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Post by keystone61 on Nov 15, 2021 10:35:12 GMT -5
6 for 180 That's what we should be willing to do. If we want to throw 6 for 170 out there then so be it, but I would go 6 for 180 as my best offer. We got great bargains for Acuña and Ozzie, so I think if you look at the aggregate pay for those 3 together then the total outlay for the total production is very doable. I don't disagree with that at all. My preference would be for a creative contract that wouldn't get in the way of winning and make Freddie a Brave for life. |
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Post by wncbravesfan on Nov 15, 2021 14:07:35 GMT -5
David O'Brien @dobrienatl
R.I.P. Julio Lugo, who played 22 games with the Braves in 2011, the final season of a 12-year MLB career.
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Post by keystone61 on Nov 15, 2021 15:59:54 GMT -5
I remember Lugo. So young
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Post by keystone61 on Nov 15, 2021 18:44:13 GMT -5
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