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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 10, 2018 22:46:43 GMT -5
To make the argument that Harper isn't a top-5 hitter, right now, because of his career WAR numbers is disingenuous to me. He came into the league at 19-years old, and didn't have his break out season until he was 22. Since that time he's battled a series of injuries that either affected his play (2016) or caused him to miss games (2017). That being said, if you want to argue that his defense precludes him from being a top-5 player, I could be persuaded, but my response would be that the Braves could move him to LF to improve his defensive value, and move Acuna to RF. In my mind, there's no doubt that he would be worth his contract, and help the Braves immensely. That isn't to say it's Harper or bust, as I'd be just as happy with Pollock or Brantley. In my mind there's doubt, and there's just too many good players out there that the money could be spread out over. Honestly, that’s why I’m not dying at the cross over signing Harper. Would it be a great signing? In my mind, absolutely. Could the Braves sign someone else and it also be a great signing? Equally, absolutely. They’d both be great for different reasons. Harper, to me, is a difference maker. Signing a guy like Pollock, and then using the extra cash for extensions or an Ace (Bumgarner!) that would also be a difference maker of a different kind. All I know is this, either way the Braves are winning the WS, so suck it MLB! Also, isn’t it nice to have debates like this? Lol
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 10, 2018 23:25:59 GMT -5
In my mind there's doubt, and there's just too many good players out there that the money could be spread out over. Honestly, that’s why I’m not dying at the cross over signing Harper. Would it be a great signing? In my mind, absolutely. Could the Braves sign someone else and it also be a great signing? Equally, absolutely. They’d both be great for different reasons. Harper, to me, is a difference maker. Signing a guy like Pollock, and then using the extra cash for extensions or an Ace (Bumgarner!) that would also be a difference maker of a different kind. All I know is this, either way the Braves are winning the WS, so suck it MLB! Also, isn’t it nice to have debates like this? Lol Yes it is, I agree.
And I'm not convinced Harper is such a difference maker all things considered. He hasn't been in the playoffs so far, and that's where the guy really should earn his big money.
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 10, 2018 23:28:05 GMT -5
In my mind there's doubt, and there's just too many good players out there that the money could be spread out over. But we don't need that many players. You keep taking about team chemistry, if we bring in 5 guys to start next year that could mess up team chemistry. We need a TOTR arm(which we may have already), a power hitting outfielder, a 3rd baseman(Riley is looking like the guy), and a true closer. 40 mil Harper, 30 mil Kershaw, and 15 mil Kimbrel. That's an ideal offseason. We have a shot to make it happen. The one problem will be if Harper and Kershaw(both west coast guys) don't want to live in the south east. If we were talking about a 4-5 year contract I would be more willing to agree about not needing that many players. But a 10 year deal is a whole different story. We can't predict what we may need 6,7 10 years from now and tying that money up is a bad idea to me. On any one player.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 11, 2018 0:16:45 GMT -5
Honestly, that’s why I’m not dying at the cross over signing Harper. Would it be a great signing? In my mind, absolutely. Could the Braves sign someone else and it also be a great signing? Equally, absolutely. They’d both be great for different reasons. Harper, to me, is a difference maker. Signing a guy like Pollock, and then using the extra cash for extensions or an Ace (Bumgarner!) that would also be a difference maker of a different kind. All I know is this, either way the Braves are winning the WS, so suck it MLB! Also, isn’t it nice to have debates like this? Lol Yes it is, I agree.
And I'm not convinced Harper is such a difference maker all things considered. He hasn't been in the playoffs so far, and that's where the guy really should earn his big money.
[ He’d be in the playoffs if he played for the Braves
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 11, 2018 7:28:00 GMT -5
Yes it is, I agree.
And I'm not convinced Harper is such a difference maker all things considered. He hasn't been in the playoffs so far, and that's where the guy really should earn his big money.
[ He’d be in the playoffs if he played for the Braves I meant he hasn't been a difference maker for the Gnats in the playoffs so far--he's been there plenty and been pretty much a dud as far as being some super hero.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 11, 2018 8:26:49 GMT -5
[ He’d be in the playoffs if he played for the Braves I meant he hasn't been a difference maker for the Gnats in the playoffs so far--he's been there plenty and been pretty much a dud as far as being some super hero. He’s had 60 at-bats and in one of those years he did quite well. Those most ABs he’s had in a postseason was 23. He’s also drawn 9 walks in that time; 15% walk rate is good.
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Post by keystone61 on May 11, 2018 8:53:55 GMT -5
I meant he hasn't been a difference maker for the Gnats in the playoffs so far--he's been there plenty and been pretty much a dud as far as being some super hero. He’s had 60 at-bats and in one of those years he did quite well. Those most ABs he’s had in a postseason was 23. He’s also drawn 9 walks in that time; 15% walk rate is good. Blah, blah, blah. The bottom line is that his team hasn't won chit.
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 11, 2018 9:54:34 GMT -5
I meant he hasn't been a difference maker for the Gnats in the playoffs so far--he's been there plenty and been pretty much a dud as far as being some super hero. He’s had 60 at-bats and in one of those years he did quite well. Those most ABs he’s had in a postseason was 23. He’s also drawn 9 walks in that time; 15% walk rate is good. Meh, for $300-400M I expect more than that. If he had played like a top superstar player in those playoff games then they would have won more games and more series.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 11, 2018 18:13:52 GMT -5
He’s had 60 at-bats and in one of those years he did quite well. Those most ABs he’s had in a postseason was 23. He’s also drawn 9 walks in that time; 15% walk rate is good. Meh, for $300-400M I expect more than that. If he had played like a top superstar player in those playoff games then they would have won more games and more series. I think there are arguments for why Harper isn't worth that kind of money. The one you're making isn't one of them. That being said, in 2014, Harper played in 4 games, hit 3 home runs, and slashed .294/.368/.882/1.251. So, he's had some success.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 11, 2018 18:14:51 GMT -5
He’s had 60 at-bats and in one of those years he did quite well. Those most ABs he’s had in a postseason was 23. He’s also drawn 9 walks in that time; 15% walk rate is good. Blah, blah, blah. The bottom line is that his team hasn't won chit. Well, I think you've convinced me. I believe it was the third blah that did it.
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Post by peteorr on May 11, 2018 18:58:32 GMT -5
Unless you can definitively say that the pressure in the playoffs got to Harper, and you can't, then citing his limited number of at bats and team success in the playoffs is pretty worthless. It is a completely different story if you don't want to sign specifically him or in general any player to a 10 year contract. Another valid argument is not investing $300M+ in one player.
Baseball is a team sport to a greater degree than a number of other team sports are. You usually can't single out one player, especially not when they played so well to get you to the playoffs to begin with. It is also not wise to utilize small sample sizes. Personally I would like Harper. I am well aware that there are arguments against him. Playoff success or lack thereof is not a valid reason in my opinion.
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 11, 2018 19:52:51 GMT -5
Meh, for $300-400M I expect more than that. If he had played like a top superstar player in those playoff games then they would have won more games and more series. I think there are arguments for why Harper isn't worth that kind of money. The one you're making isn't one of them. That being said, in 2014, Harper played in 4 games, hit 3 home runs, and slashed .294/.368/.882/1.251. So, he's had some success.That's true.
Now take that away and look at how poorly it means he's done in all of his other playoff performances combined.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 11, 2018 21:18:23 GMT -5
Yeah, 15 whole games, spread out over 5 years.
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 11, 2018 22:18:11 GMT -5
Yeah, 15 whole games, spread out over 5 years. If he had performed better they would have played more than 15 playoff games during those 5 years. During those 15 games I see 70 PA's, 11 hits, 3 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR, a .192 BA, and a .667 OPS and 20 strikeouts.
Were the 5 games were he was applauded for having success an ample sample size but the 15 where he hasn't isn't?
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 11, 2018 23:37:40 GMT -5
Yeah, 15 whole games, spread out over 5 years. If he had performed better they would have played more than 15 playoff games during those 5 years. During those 15 games I see 70 PA's, 11 hits, 3 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR, a .192 BA, and a .667 OPS and 20 strikeouts.
Were the 5 games were he was applauded for having success an ample sample size but the 15 where he hasn't isn't? Don’t you think you might be putting too much of a burden on his back? Baseball is a team sport after all and if I remember correctly, the Nats biggest playoff issue has been their pitching, particularly their bullpen. Which was and still is an issue that they seem to not recognize.
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