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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 8, 2018 23:37:34 GMT -5
I don't think it's wise to spend $40 million on 3 relievers. I don't even know why you're limiting it to $40 million. The Braves have $80 million to spend, which means it's completely realistic for the Braves to sign Harper, Kimbrel, Miller, and still have money left over. we may have 80 mil to spend but I don't think this team has 80 mil in Needs. I believe we can spend very little. I think between Julio,McCarthy,swanson Camargo and several minor league arms and maybe even Neck. we can trade for a stud young OF and I believe Riley is the real deal. A couple of BP arms we are good to go You're right, we don't have $80 million in needs, just $60 million. Harper - $35 million Kimbrel - $15 million Miller - $10 million Also, what team is going to trade a stud young OF? The Marlins did it with Yelich, and everyone acknowledged how rare that was, and the Braves couldn't even come close to an comparable package that the Marlins got from the Brewers. When you have a chance at getting a top-5 player, you'd be a fool to say, "Nah, I'm good."
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jryanw
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Post by jryanw on May 9, 2018 14:37:43 GMT -5
we may have 80 mil to spend but I don't think this team has 80 mil in Needs. I believe we can spend very little. I think between Julio,McCarthy,swanson Camargo and several minor league arms and maybe even Neck. we can trade for a stud young OF and I believe Riley is the real deal. A couple of BP arms we are good to go You're right, we don't have $80 million in needs, just $60 million. Harper - $35 million Kimbrel - $15 million Miller - $10 million Also, what team is going to trade a stud young OF? The Marlins did it with Yelich, and everyone acknowledged how rare that was, and the Braves couldn't even come close to an comparable package that the Marlins got from the Brewers. When you have a chance at getting a top-5 player, you'd be a fool to say, "Nah, I'm good." 100% correct. Why try and trade for something you can sign. AA didn't say we are making 80 mil. He said we will have 80+ mil to spend next year. They are going to spend the money so Harper, Machado, or Pollack(the backup plan) needs to be someone we spend the money on.
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 9, 2018 14:52:24 GMT -5
As a point of interest, here's Harper's yearly rankings in WAR since he came into the league:
2012 28th 2013 35th 2014 146th 2015 1st 2016 62nd 2017 21st 2018 49th
Why am I not seeing some kind of factual proof there of a "top 5 player?"
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 9, 2018 18:48:04 GMT -5
That’s a disingenuous argument. You’re making the argument that the Braves shouldn’t sign him because he’s injury prone; which, as you know is a poor argument to make. When Harper is on the field he’s a top-5 player.
And are we really going to compare WAR after a month of a season?
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 9, 2018 19:03:22 GMT -5
No, I just compared it over a six year period. Only one of which had much of an injury effect.
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Cheaters2
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Post by Cheaters2 on May 10, 2018 17:40:56 GMT -5
As a point of interest, here's Harper's yearly rankings in WAR since he came into the league:
2012 28th 2013 35th 2014 146th 2015 1st 2016 62nd 2017 21st 2018 49th
Why am I not seeing some kind of factual proof there of a "top 5 player?"
You are great Fumduckery . that is exactly right Harper is more Hype than Substance. would I rather have him over Neck for the next 5 yrs? Yes. at 40 mil no way. because he is not a top 10 player. and at 40 mil you need to be Barry Bonds on Roids. he is to baseball what Dale Earnhardt jr was to nascar mostly Hype.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on May 10, 2018 18:47:51 GMT -5
Well there is the thing about WAR bein. a cumulative stat, so you have to look at it in terms of number of games played, and most of those ahead in those rankings have more games under their belt..
... but do you want to pay someone that sort of money when historically they have had issues in several seasons being able to stay healthy.
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 10, 2018 20:17:21 GMT -5
Well there is the thing about WAR bein. a cumulative stat, so you have to look at it in terms of number of games played, and most of those ahead in those rankings have more games under their belt.. ... but do you want to pay someone that sort of money when historically they have had issues in several seasons being able to stay healthy.Exactly.
Which, if I was being disingenuous, it was with this very point to follow next of course.
And even in the seasons he's been healthy, he's not been anywhere close to being a top 10 player (aside from the one monster year). Including this year. It's a partial season, but it is what it is.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on May 10, 2018 21:05:57 GMT -5
A player like Harper causes this sort of debate because everyone knows what he can do, but has seen inconsistency and expectations sometimes exceeding actual results.
It always ends up you either love him or hate him, and my point has always been that I don't think this is the sort of player in which the Braves would invest that sort of money.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 10, 2018 21:20:13 GMT -5
No, I just compared it over a six year period. Only one of which had much of an injury effect. To make the argument that Harper isn't a top-5 hitter, right now, because of his career WAR numbers is disingenuous to me. He came into the league at 19-years old, and didn't have his break out season until he was 22. Since that time he's battled a series of injuries that either affected his play (2016) or caused him to miss games (2017). That being said, if you want to argue that his defense precludes him from being a top-5 player, I could be persuaded, but my response would be that the Braves could move him to LF to improve his defensive value, and move Acuna to RF. In my mind, there's no doubt that he would be worth his contract, and help the Braves immensely. That isn't to say it's Harper or bust, as I'd be just as happy with Pollock or Brantley.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on May 10, 2018 21:21:49 GMT -5
A player like Harper causes this sort of debate because everyone knows what he can do, but has seen inconsistency and expectations sometimes exceeding actual results. It always ends up you either love him or hate him, and my point has always been that I don't think this is the sort of player in which the Braves would invest that sort of money. Injuries aren't predictive. It would be one thing if it were the same injury over and over, but in this case it isn't. It would be like saying you'd question the Braves signing Mickey Mantle because of his injury history. Mantle still wound up being one of the best players to ever play the game.
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Post by Fumbduckery on May 10, 2018 21:50:03 GMT -5
No, I just compared it over a six year period. Only one of which had much of an injury effect. To make the argument that Harper isn't a top-5 hitter, right now, because of his career WAR numbers is disingenuous to me. He came into the league at 19-years old, and didn't have his break out season until he was 22. Since that time he's battled a series of injuries that either affected his play (2016) or caused him to miss games (2017). That being said, if you want to argue that his defense precludes him from being a top-5 player, I could be persuaded, but my response would be that the Braves could move him to LF to improve his defensive value, and move Acuna to RF. In my mind, there's no doubt that he would be worth his contract, and help the Braves immensely. That isn't to say it's Harper or bust, as I'd be just as happy with Pollock or Brantley. In my mind there's doubt, and there's just too many good players out there that the money could be spread out over.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on May 10, 2018 21:55:12 GMT -5
Injuries aren't predictive, I agree.. and that was said when the Marlins signed Stanton to his monster deal and then watched him not play more than 120 games for the next couple of seasons.
Even if fluky and non predictive, investing that much in a single player is risky and the Braves historically only take risks on high upside low cost guys.
I haven't even been arguing against signing him though... I've just been repeating over and over that I don't think the Braves WILL sign him.
So if and when they don't we can talk about the reasons why they didn't.
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jryanw
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Post by jryanw on May 10, 2018 22:07:24 GMT -5
To make the argument that Harper isn't a top-5 hitter, right now, because of his career WAR numbers is disingenuous to me. He came into the league at 19-years old, and didn't have his break out season until he was 22. Since that time he's battled a series of injuries that either affected his play (2016) or caused him to miss games (2017). That being said, if you want to argue that his defense precludes him from being a top-5 player, I could be persuaded, but my response would be that the Braves could move him to LF to improve his defensive value, and move Acuna to RF. In my mind, there's no doubt that he would be worth his contract, and help the Braves immensely. That isn't to say it's Harper or bust, as I'd be just as happy with Pollock or Brantley. In my mind there's doubt, and there's just too many good players out there that the money could be spread out over. But we don't need that many players. You keep taking about team chemistry, if we bring in 5 guys to start next year that could mess up team chemistry. We need a TOTR arm(which we may have already), a power hitting outfielder, a 3rd baseman(Riley is looking like the guy), and a true closer. 40 mil Harper, 30 mil Kershaw, and 15 mil Kimbrel. That's an ideal offseason. We have a shot to make it happen. The one problem will be if Harper and Kershaw(both west coast guys) don't want to live in the south east.
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Post by bravter on May 10, 2018 22:35:31 GMT -5
I have my doubts that Bryce Harper will sign with any NL east team. Seeing him in person the guy just doesn't fit in to the Braves mold. He's just an overly cocky guy that acted like he hated being here in Atlanta.
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