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Post by TomlinFoolery on Nov 12, 2021 15:51:07 GMT -5
www.sportstalkatl.com/braves-report-freddie-freeman-has-rejected-a-five-year-offer-from-the-braves/Wasn't sure if this belongs here or in the Winter/Spring 2022 tread but I'll post it here. I'm not particularly a fan of sites like that, but it's the only place I've heard anything about it so far. Freeman rejected a 5yr/$135mm offer and is seeking more along the lines of 6yrs/$200mm. I'm almost certain they'll get a deal done, but he was well worth that $135 mil in the previous contract and $200 mil over 6 years is quite fair for a player of his caliber. Perhaps 6/$190mm would get it done.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 12, 2021 16:20:58 GMT -5
I thought all along it would end up taking somewheres around 6 for $175-180
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2021 18:09:10 GMT -5
They seem quite far apart - I am prepared to the possibility Freddie will move on hate to say it
I have said that I think one team might even offer a 7 or 8 yr deal. It only takes one GM to do that and when FA gets competitive some teams can play the fool in the battle for what they want
Just seems like a low ball offer, was hoping we could do better than that for Freddie would not blame him for moving on if that is where they are
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peteorr
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Post by peteorr on Nov 14, 2021 15:37:21 GMT -5
As of now, here is my preference for both the lineup and rotation:
Lineup 1. Acuna R RF 2. Riley R 3B 3. Story R SS 4. Pham R 1B/DH 5. Albies B 2B 6. Seiya Suzuki R LF 7. d'Arnaud R C / Contreras R C 8. Travis Shaw L 1B/DH 9. Pache R CF
Rotation
Fried LHP Morton RHP Anderson RHP Kershaw LHP Soroka RHP
Take Dansby to arbitration and trade him. Using MLBTR estimates, sign Story for 6/$126M and Seiya Suzuki for 5/$65.125M. Sign Pham for 1/$8M (my estimate). Story has slightly more fWar than Freeman over the past four seasons. Story has a clear lead in baseball reference WAR 19.8 to 17.2. Story is the cheaper and younger player. Sign Kershaw 1/$20M (MLBTR estimate). Sign Travis Shaw $1M (my estimate). Dickerson would be a more preferable 1B/DH option as long as the Braves were willing to stretch the budget (he'd cost $8M maybe?). Fangraphs probably has estimates as well and it would be more accurate if I were to include those as well, but these are all rough estimates at the end of the day.
I like the idea of Suzuki a lot. He should have above average to good defense in left field. I've read that his defense is definitely overrated if one judges him on his (I believe it is three) gold gloves. Kershaw would serve a dual purpose. Assuming all the starters are healthy, then the Braves would probably win 75-80% of the 5th starter's games. That's important in making the playoffs. What's more important is that the Braves have enough quality pitchers to pitch in the postseason. The Braves need to do their best to avoid having no name pitchers as well as Kyle Wright not pitch in playoff games. I have not and likely will not put much thought into the bench and bullpen. The Braves would need to be willing to find a replacement for Pache at the deadline if needed. That would be the first thing that comes to mind at the trade deadline. Other than that, the deadline would go as it has for what seems like forever now, only minor additions. The last star acquired at a trade deadline by the Braves was Mark Teixeira in 2007? The Braves will almost certainly be doing all of their heavy lifting this offseason. Take that into account when you are considering what you wish for.
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Post by TomlinFoolery on Nov 14, 2021 16:38:21 GMT -5
I think Freddie would do 6/185-190.
Offer it and get it done.
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Post by SuperBrave on Nov 14, 2021 19:34:10 GMT -5
As of now, here is my preference for both the lineup and rotation: Lineup 1. Acuna R RF 2. Riley R 3B 3. Story R SS 4. Pham R 1B/DH 5. Albies B 2B 6. Seiya Suzuki R LF 7. d'Arnaud R C / Contreras R C 8. Travis Shaw L 1B/DH 9. Pache R CF Rotation Fried LHP Morton RHP Anderson RHP Kershaw LHP Soroka RHP Take Dansby to arbitration and trade him. Using MLBTR estimates, sign Story for 6/$126M and Seiya Suzuki for 5/$65.125M. Sign Pham for 1/$8M (my estimate). Story has slightly more fWar than Freeman over the past four seasons. Story has a clear lead in baseball reference WAR 19.8 to 17.2. Story is the cheaper and younger player. Sign Kershaw 1/$20M (MLBTR estimate). Sign Travis Shaw $1M (my estimate). Dickerson would be a more preferable 1B/DH option as long as the Braves were willing to stretch the budget (he'd cost $8M maybe?). Fangraphs probably has estimates as well and it would be more accurate if I were to include those as well, but these are all rough estimates at the end of the day. I like the idea of Suzuki a lot. He should have above average to good defense in left field. I've read that his defense is definitely overrated if one judges him on his (I believe it is three) gold gloves. Kershaw would serve a dual purpose. Assuming all the starters are healthy, then the Braves would probably win 75-80% of the 5th starter's games. That's important in making the playoffs. What's more important is that the Braves have enough quality pitchers to pitch in the postseason. The Braves need to do their best to avoid having no name pitchers as well as Kyle Wright not pitch in playoff games. I have not and likely will not put much thought into the bench and bullpen. The Braves would need to be willing to find a replacement for Pache at the deadline if needed. That would be the first thing that comes to mind at the trade deadline. Other than that, the deadline would go as it has for what seems like forever now, only minor additions. The last star acquired at a trade deadline by the Braves was Mark Teixeira in 2007? The Braves will almost certainly be doing all of their heavy lifting this offseason. Take that into account when you are considering what you wish for. Creative Thinking. I like that!
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 14, 2021 23:38:07 GMT -5
As of now, here is my preference for both the lineup and rotation: Lineup 1. Acuna R RF 2. Riley R 3B 3. Story R SS 4. Pham R 1B/DH 5. Albies B 2B 6. Seiya Suzuki R LF 7. d'Arnaud R C / Contreras R C 8. Travis Shaw L 1B/DH 9. Pache R CF Rotation Fried LHP Morton RHP Anderson RHP Kershaw LHP Soroka RHP Take Dansby to arbitration and trade him. Using MLBTR estimates, sign Story for 6/$126M and Seiya Suzuki for 5/$65.125M. Sign Pham for 1/$8M (my estimate). Story has slightly more fWar than Freeman over the past four seasons. Story has a clear lead in baseball reference WAR 19.8 to 17.2. Story is the cheaper and younger player. Sign Kershaw 1/$20M (MLBTR estimate). Sign Travis Shaw $1M (my estimate). Dickerson would be a more preferable 1B/DH option as long as the Braves were willing to stretch the budget (he'd cost $8M maybe?). Fangraphs probably has estimates as well and it would be more accurate if I were to include those as well, but these are all rough estimates at the end of the day. I like the idea of Suzuki a lot. He should have above average to good defense in left field. I've read that his defense is definitely overrated if one judges him on his (I believe it is three) gold gloves. Kershaw would serve a dual purpose. Assuming all the starters are healthy, then the Braves would probably win 75-80% of the 5th starter's games. That's important in making the playoffs. What's more important is that the Braves have enough quality pitchers to pitch in the postseason. The Braves need to do their best to avoid having no name pitchers as well as Kyle Wright not pitch in playoff games. I have not and likely will not put much thought into the bench and bullpen. The Braves would need to be willing to find a replacement for Pache at the deadline if needed. That would be the first thing that comes to mind at the trade deadline. Other than that, the deadline would go as it has for what seems like forever now, only minor additions. The last star acquired at a trade deadline by the Braves was Mark Teixeira in 2007? The Braves will almost certainly be doing all of their heavy lifting this offseason. Take that into account when you are considering what you wish for. So you basically want to blow up half of a WS roster, count on an aging Kershaw claiming he as our 4th starter means out 5th starter.. currently out of baseball for 2 years will win 80% of his games. You also fail to address we may still be paying wife-beater and that makes the stretch the payroll thing a bit tough, and then counting on 100% health from everyone for the entire season, there is no addressing of a bench or adding to the pen. That is.... super creative. So super creative there is about 0% chance we do any of that, and as such it is irrefutable on any level.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 15, 2021 0:22:53 GMT -5
AA was on the local news tonight..
Regarding Freeman: He said he deserves the right to go through the process to determine his value, but in the end Freddie sincerely wants to be here, and he thinks the end result will make him and the Atlanta fans happy. We just need to let the process play out and not worry about it taking 2 more days, 2 more weeks, or 2 months.
Regarding the team: He said we know injuries and unforeseen things will happen, and looking at the entire roster and depth is just as important as the starting 8 or 9. He especially wants to have depth in the outfield and starting rotation.
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peteorr
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Post by peteorr on Nov 15, 2021 13:42:50 GMT -5
As of now, here is my preference for both the lineup and rotation: Lineup 1. Acuna R RF 2. Riley R 3B 3. Story R SS 4. Pham R 1B/DH 5. Albies B 2B 6. Seiya Suzuki R LF 7. d'Arnaud R C / Contreras R C 8. Travis Shaw L 1B/DH 9. Pache R CF Rotation Fried LHP Morton RHP Anderson RHP Kershaw LHP Soroka RHP Take Dansby to arbitration and trade him. Using MLBTR estimates, sign Story for 6/$126M and Seiya Suzuki for 5/$65.125M. Sign Pham for 1/$8M (my estimate). Story has slightly more fWar than Freeman over the past four seasons. Story has a clear lead in baseball reference WAR 19.8 to 17.2. Story is the cheaper and younger player. Sign Kershaw 1/$20M (MLBTR estimate). Sign Travis Shaw $1M (my estimate). Dickerson would be a more preferable 1B/DH option as long as the Braves were willing to stretch the budget (he'd cost $8M maybe?). Fangraphs probably has estimates as well and it would be more accurate if I were to include those as well, but these are all rough estimates at the end of the day. I like the idea of Suzuki a lot. He should have above average to good defense in left field. I've read that his defense is definitely overrated if one judges him on his (I believe it is three) gold gloves. Kershaw would serve a dual purpose. Assuming all the starters are healthy, then the Braves would probably win 75-80% of the 5th starter's games. That's important in making the playoffs. What's more important is that the Braves have enough quality pitchers to pitch in the postseason. The Braves need to do their best to avoid having no name pitchers as well as Kyle Wright not pitch in playoff games. I have not and likely will not put much thought into the bench and bullpen. The Braves would need to be willing to find a replacement for Pache at the deadline if needed. That would be the first thing that comes to mind at the trade deadline. Other than that, the deadline would go as it has for what seems like forever now, only minor additions. The last star acquired at a trade deadline by the Braves was Mark Teixeira in 2007? The Braves will almost certainly be doing all of their heavy lifting this offseason. Take that into account when you are considering what you wish for. So you basically want to blow up half of a WS roster, count on an aging Kershaw claiming he as our 4th starter means out 5th starter.. currently out of baseball for 2 years will win 80% of his games. You also fail to address we may still be paying wife-beater and that makes the stretch the payroll thing a bit tough, and then counting on 100% health from everyone for the entire season, there is no addressing of a bench or adding to the pen. That is.... super creative. So super creative there is about 0% chance we do any of that, and as such it is irrefutable on any level. If I were to have written more then I would have written that Kershaw is merely a preference and that getting him is not life or death for the Braves. What I maintain is that the Braves should not replace Smyly internally with Touki, Ynoa, Wright, etc. If Soroka were to be close to being back to his old self and had a ~3.8 ERA, I could easily see Soroka winning 75% of his decisions as the 5th starter with that lineup.
As for the finances,
Liberty Media released quarterly earnings report. #Braves revenues went from $11M for 2nd quarter of 2020, when no baseball was played, to $216M for same quarter 2021, when Braves have led MLB in home attendance. Factoring in increased expenses, operating profit for quarter: $54M
I remember after the Red Sox won the WS a few years ago and then didn't the next year, the owner talked about how profitable the team was despite spending all that money because they made so much money by winning the WS. The Braves can afford to pay Kershaw for a year and write off Ozuna's contract as well if need be. I assume Ozuna will be suspended for some length of time so the Braves probably won't be on the hook for the full remainder of his contract.
As for the bench, bench players can be volatile. The same goes for the bullpen, although more attention to detail is certainly needed there. The bench is also not something that is all that critical if there is to be a DH in the NL. The marginal players who comprise the bench would see even less playing time than before.
You are correct that the Braves will not do what I have suggested. I still like my way a fair bit more than signing Freddie (who is older than Story) and may need to move to DH at some point. I do not expect MLBTR to be perfect in their contract estimates. That said, Story will still likely end up being cheaper than Freeman. I don't like keeping Dansby long term and Story is a fix for that. Also when Story moves off of shortstop, he can move to third base and Riley can slide to first base. Semien and Baez would probably be moving to second base once they are done at shortstop and that would be suboptimal for the Braves. Seager and Correa will probably prove to be more cost prohibitive than Freeman and aren't options even though they would fit based on their talent and likelihood that they would move to third base instead of second base when the time comes that they could no longer play shortstop.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 15, 2021 16:11:09 GMT -5
One of the big reasons I think we should and will work something out with Freddie is the team chemistry thing. It's a massive intangible that you can't put a price tag on. Every team in every sport chases it, and teams like the Dodgers and Yankees spend massive amounts of money trying to overcome chemistry with sheer talent, and somehow it just doesn't seem to work out doing it way. We have the chemistry thing pretty much mastered, and the guys who were added at the deadline all seemed to fit in perfectly. It's a formula I don't think should be messed with. I'm not a big Dansby fan because of his insane inconsistency, but all things considered I think he's part of the chemistry thing. These guys like each other, play well together and succeed. We can sign Freddie, extend Dansby and have a core that has continued to improve and win and have them all together for another 5+ years. Snitker is part of that chemistry, but I'd still like to see him become a bench coach or third base coach if Washington leaves, so he can do his player relations thing, and let Chipper take over calling the shots!
I think Washington is a big part of all of that, I hope it doesn't screw things up much if he does leave.
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Post by PABraveFan on Nov 15, 2021 18:43:32 GMT -5
Braves Sign Manny Pina
The 5-foot-11, 216-pound native of Barquisimeto, Venezuela, threw out 11 of 37 potential base stealers (29.7%) in 2021, and for his career, he has caught 34.7% (70-for-202) of runners.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 15, 2021 19:06:27 GMT -5
Braves Sign Manny Pina
The 5-foot-11, 216-pound native of Barquisimeto, Venezuela, threw out 11 of 37 potential base stealers (29.7%) in 2021, and for his career, he has caught 34.7% (70-for-202) of runners.
Do all of our players donate 1% to the foundation? If Freddie does that with his new contract that will be a lot of money!
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 15, 2021 20:08:18 GMT -5
The bench may not be as important with the DH but as we have seen ourselves, there are injuries and players that struggle.
We can't just ignore it, and we especially can not ignore the bullpen. With starters going 4-5 innings all the time, the bullpen depth and effectiveness is yugely important.
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Post by PABraveFan on Nov 15, 2021 20:22:02 GMT -5
As of now, here is my preference for both the lineup and rotation: Lineup 1. Acuna R RF 2. Riley R 3B 3. Story R SS 4. Pham R 1B/DH 5. Albies B 2B 6. Seiya Suzuki R LF 7. d'Arnaud R C / Contreras R C 8. Travis Shaw L 1B/DH 9. Pache R CF Rotation Fried LHP Morton RHP Anderson RHP Kershaw LHP Soroka RHP Take Dansby to arbitration and trade him. Using MLBTR estimates, sign Story for 6/$126M and Seiya Suzuki for 5/$65.125M. Sign Pham for 1/$8M (my estimate). Story has slightly more fWar than Freeman over the past four seasons. Story has a clear lead in baseball reference WAR 19.8 to 17.2. Story is the cheaper and younger player. Sign Kershaw 1/$20M (MLBTR estimate). Sign Travis Shaw $1M (my estimate). Dickerson would be a more preferable 1B/DH option as long as the Braves were willing to stretch the budget (he'd cost $8M maybe?). Fangraphs probably has estimates as well and it would be more accurate if I were to include those as well, but these are all rough estimates at the end of the day. I like the idea of Suzuki a lot. He should have above average to good defense in left field. I've read that his defense is definitely overrated if one judges him on his (I believe it is three) gold gloves. Kershaw would serve a dual purpose. Assuming all the starters are healthy, then the Braves would probably win 75-80% of the 5th starter's games. That's important in making the playoffs. What's more important is that the Braves have enough quality pitchers to pitch in the postseason. The Braves need to do their best to avoid having no name pitchers as well as Kyle Wright not pitch in playoff games. I have not and likely will not put much thought into the bench and bullpen. The Braves would need to be willing to find a replacement for Pache at the deadline if needed. That would be the first thing that comes to mind at the trade deadline. Other than that, the deadline would go as it has for what seems like forever now, only minor additions. The last star acquired at a trade deadline by the Braves was Mark Teixeira in 2007? The Braves will almost certainly be doing all of their heavy lifting this offseason. Take that into account when you are considering what you wish for. I don't think we should break it up that much. Here's mine, probably a more feasible/traditional take: Lineup 1. Acuna R RF 2. Marte CF $20M 3. Freeman 1B 4. Riley R 3B 5. Albies B 2B or Rosario LF/DH $8-10M 6. Rosario LF/DH $8-10M or Albies B 2B 7. Duvall LF/DH $10M or Soler OF/DH $12M (RF until Acuna returns) 8. d'Arnaud R C / Pina R C 9. Swanson R SS Rotation Fried LHP Morton RHP Anderson RHP Soroka RHP ? preferably a LHP To be honest I have no idea how much they would spend so I tried to be reasonable, maybe a little too optimistic, without going full out LA Dodgers or NY Yankees crazy and signing every All Star in sight. Story will take a 30% cut in WAR out of Coors Field if Arenado is any indication so I would pass. Sign Dansby 1/$10 arb or 4/$48M. Sign Marte for 4/$80 per MLBTR. Resign Rosario 2/$15 per MLBTR and either Duvall $10M/yr or Soler 3/$36M per MLBTR. Not exactly sure of the Duvall situation. Speed (Marte, Acuna) and power (Acuna) at the top then sluggers Freeman and Riley, then more speed and power with both Albies and Rosario followed by another slugger Soler or Duvall before Travis and Dansby. Image a 27 HR guy hitting 9th in front of Acuna. Dansby is gonna see some pitches to hit if he can lay off the low and away slider (will a pitcher bank on him chasing a pitch off the plate and walking him with Acuna on deck?). If Marte is not signed (probably a pipe dream) you still have Pache and Duvall can play center too. Move Rosario to 2 hole, Soler and Duvall at 6th and 7th. I LOVE the idea of Acuna and Marte 1,2 though. I'd even let Duvall or Soler go to get that. Not to keen on Kershaw. Always hurt it seems. I might go for a bit cheaper option with more reliability.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 15, 2021 22:19:23 GMT -5
I love your Marte idea but feel like there's no way that will happen.
Dansby is going to pull in more like 5 years $75M in my opinion. Those HRs and RBIs look good to outsiders. I think he has worse problems than just low and away breaking pitches. When he goes in one of his month long epic slumps he can't hit any pitch. I'm at a loss to even try to think about it anymore, it just looks like this is who he is going to be his entire career.
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