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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 8:35:33 GMT -5
I think runs scored and RBIs have just become accepted as team stats, because that's what they are (in my opinion anyway). I'm not sure in the long run we really need to have one stat that shows a players actual individual contribution, it may just be a fad right now that will burn out. But it does make for interesting points and discussions. I hope WAR and stats related to that are fads that burn out, its never really been clearly defined or explained in a way that is understood like compilation stats are RBI's and individual runs scored are never going away, but they should be looked in the context of what is around that individual player The good GM's and team planners do this
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Sept 7, 2019 10:33:41 GMT -5
I think runs scored and RBIs have just become accepted as team stats, because that's what they are (in my opinion anyway). I'm not sure in the long run we really need to have one stat that shows a players actual individual contribution, it may just be a fad right now that will burn out. But it does make for interesting points and discussions. I hope WAR and stats related to that are fads that burn out, its never really been clearly defined or explained in a way that is understood like compilation stats are RBI's and individual runs scored are never going away, but they should be looked in the context of what is around that individual player The good GM's and team planners do this Why would you hope they burn out? To think that would mean that they’re wrong in some way, but they’re clearly less wrong than judging a players worth based on how many RBI he has, or how many wins he got.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Sept 7, 2019 11:49:49 GMT -5
An unwillingness to understand them, and issues when they don't agree with a personal opinion.
I question some things at some positions with defensive metrics, but with Westie; he questions pretty reliable things like OPS+ and wRC+. ..Almost anything that isn't backed up with what can be counted with fingers and toes.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Sept 7, 2019 11:59:43 GMT -5
To me OPS isn’t even an advanced stat, it uses traditional stats and is very simple to understand. How can anyone not like a stat that tells you in one number how often a guy gets on base and how much power he hits with?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 14:43:49 GMT -5
To me OPS isn’t even an advanced stat, it uses traditional stats and is very simple to understand. How can anyone not like a stat that tells you in one number how often a guy gets on base and how much power he hits with? I have no problem with OPS though I do see that as slanted toward power hitters Not everybody should be a home run hitter, though the way the game is going its getting that way I miss 1970's and 80's baseball and what the game used to be - guys like Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn and Lou Brock, where have yall gone It was a combination of slapper hitters and boppers more of a complete game Power is not as special as it used to be
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 14:46:18 GMT -5
I hope WAR and stats related to that are fads that burn out, its never really been clearly defined or explained in a way that is understood like compilation stats are RBI's and individual runs scored are never going away, but they should be looked in the context of what is around that individual player The good GM's and team planners do this Why would you hope they burn out? To think that would mean that they’re wrong in some way, but they’re clearly less wrong than judging a players worth based on how many RBI he has, or how many wins he got. To me the advanced anaylitics have bastardized the game Worst thing that has come about is the opener pitcher -- that is not baseball We had a great game to watch - don't even want to think about what is going to be used ten or fifteen yrs from now -- I hate those anaylitics - WAR is stupid
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 14:52:06 GMT -5
An unwillingness to understand them, and issues when they don't agree with a personal opinion. I question some things at some positions with defensive metrics, but with Westie; he questions pretty reliable things like OPS+ and wRC+. ..Almost anything that isn't backed up with what can be counted with fingers and toes. You are pretty much right, it has taken away my enjoyment of the game as we once knew it Why complicate life with OPS plus when you have OPS at your fingertips and RC, hey, enough said - I like my sports entertainment clear and simplified - it was good enough for me most of my life why change
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Sept 7, 2019 16:54:08 GMT -5
An unwillingness to understand them, and issues when they don't agree with a personal opinion. I question some things at some positions with defensive metrics, but with Westie; he questions pretty reliable things like OPS+ and wRC+. ..Almost anything that isn't backed up with what can be counted with fingers and toes. You are pretty much right, it has taken away my enjoyment of the game as we once knew it Why complicate life with OPS plus when you have OPS at your fingertips and RC, hey, enough said - I like my sports entertainment clear and simplified - it was good enough for me most of my life why change I bet you’re still upset they adopted the DH and use Closers
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Post by keystone61 on Sept 7, 2019 20:03:51 GMT -5
To me OPS isn’t even an advanced stat, it uses traditional stats and is very simple to understand. How can anyone not like a stat that tells you in one number how often a guy gets on base and how much power he hits with? It's my favorite stat. It doesn't lie. Look at the all time leaders. It's a who's who of baseball. There are some guys there who aren't Hall of Famers, but pretty much all of those were great hitters during their time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 20:56:04 GMT -5
You are pretty much right, it has taken away my enjoyment of the game as we once knew it Why complicate life with OPS plus when you have OPS at your fingertips and RC, hey, enough said - I like my sports entertainment clear and simplified - it was good enough for me most of my life why change I bet you’re still upset they adopted the DH and use Closers No, the DH has been around for a long time and closers, hey we used to have two plus inning closers before game stifling specialization that has gone insane I support universal DH at this point in time, you have interleague play might as well play by universal rules
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Sept 7, 2019 20:59:12 GMT -5
I bet you’re still upset they adopted the DH and use Closers No, the DH has been around for a long time and closers, hey we used to have two plus inning closers before game stifling specialization that has gone insane I support universal DH at this point in time, you have interleague play might as well play by universal rules So, I guess in 40 or so years you'll finally come around.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Sept 7, 2019 21:02:44 GMT -5
No, the DH has been around for a long time and closers, hey we used to have two plus inning closers before game stifling specialization that has gone insane I support universal DH at this point in time, you have interleague play might as well play by universal rules So, I guess in 40 or so years you'll finally come around. No he won't.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 21:06:36 GMT -5
No, the DH has been around for a long time and closers, hey we used to have two plus inning closers before game stifling specialization that has gone insane I support universal DH at this point in time, you have interleague play might as well play by universal rules So, I guess in 40 or so years you'll finally come around. I wont be alive in 40 yrs and no as far as the metrics go, you have a better chance of getting me to dislike dogs and be a rap music concert goer than accept Brian Kenney;s version of how the game should be viewed Brian Kenny and Nick Saban gosh they are the cardinal sins of sports in my book I hate Alabama football more than I hate a Braves playoff series loss
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Post by keystone61 on Sept 7, 2019 22:55:52 GMT -5
The new metrics are fine. They're an outgrowth of the technology we have more than anything, IMO. The computer made it possible to run all these numbers, and they're fine. I don't get into them very much, but that's just me. They're useful, I'm sure, but they can't tell you things like when a guy is locked in, or what might be going on in his personal life, etc. There are lots of things that affect players that can't be quantified, and that's where a good manager comes in. We give Snit hell, and usually for good reason, but look what the team has done with him at the helm. I seriously doubt that anyone could have done better than he has.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 23:32:37 GMT -5
The new metrics are fine. They're an outgrowth of the technology we have more than anything, IMO. The computer made it possible to run all these numbers, and they're fine. I don't get into them very much, but that's just me. They're useful, I'm sure, but they can't tell you things like when a guy is locked in, or what might be going on in his personal life, etc. There are lots of things that affect players that can't be quantified, and that's where a good manager comes in. We give Snit hell, and usually for good reason, but look what the team has done with him at the helm. I seriously doubt that anyone could have done better than he has. Has the old regime been in place Snitker would have been gone especially if Hart has stayed around Who knows who they would have hired but I am glad that Alex came in and I am not sure that the kids would have flourished under the negative environment that Hart and that other guy who can no longer work in baseball fostered Say what you will about AA and Snit, they created a positive workplace and the results are better the scandal to me saved the organization and accelerated the rebuild I just wish the WAR thing would go away its so stupid no one single digit should determine the value a player has, its the dumbest of all the metrics
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