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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Sept 4, 2019 12:24:25 GMT -5
Well... no one ever said the RBI stat was going away, so I'm not sure what you're on about there.
It's just properly understanding RBI's
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Cheaters2
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Post by Cheaters2 on Sept 4, 2019 13:04:42 GMT -5
I have never discounted RBI’s, I’ve said it’s by far not one of the best ways to evaluate an individuals contribution. It’s a team stat, very dependent on other players on the team. It even depends on who is hitting behind you. Yep... 2016 people were willing to walk Freddie and take their chances. JD's power now sits behind him and it's no mere coincidence his RBI total is up. didn't you guys say on the old board that protection meant nothing?
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Cheaters2
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Post by Cheaters2 on Sept 4, 2019 13:26:51 GMT -5
And RBIs is one of the three most important statistics I understand that stat Geeks won't agree but the bottom line to success is scoring runs driving in runs and winning ball game and therefore this is Freeman best season considering he has done that better all season that he ever did before., I understand you've got to have Runners on base to get RBIs but it is a team sport.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Sept 4, 2019 14:12:03 GMT -5
Yep... 2016 people were willing to walk Freddie and take their chances. JD's power now sits behind him and it's no mere coincidence his RBI total is up. didn't you guys say on the old board that protection meant nothing? No... I think several said it was overrated when it came to individual hitting. If you look back to 2016 you will see Freeman's results were fantastic. There were just fewer RBI chances for him for many reasons. A classic argument style of yours. Mischaracterize what people said and the argue against the mischaracterization. And RBIs is one of the three most important statistics I understand that stat Geeks won't agree but the bottom line to success is scoring runs driving in runs and winning ball game and therefore this is Freeman best season considering he has done that better all season that he ever did before., I understand you've got to have Runners on base to get RBIs but it is a team sport. This comment indicates you have almost zero comprehension about what we have said here regarding RBI's.
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Post by keystone61 on Sept 4, 2019 14:42:01 GMT -5
Some RBIs are overrated, others are underrated. Homers and 2-out RBIs are obviously the best, regardless of the situation. I don't necessarily buy into "clutch hitting", although there may be something to it. For example, I noted the other night the higher numbers for Dansby and Acuna (there may well be others on the team) from the 7th inning on, but I think all the crappy relievers have something to do with that. While a game-winner or walk-off, whatever you wanna call it, is obviously the RBI everyone remembers, is it really "clutch"? I don't really think so, although perhaps some guys improve their focus in those situations. I think the timing of it is what spawned the term clutch. It's really nothing more than that. IMO
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Post by Fumbduckery on Sept 4, 2019 17:11:27 GMT -5
Well... no one ever said the RBI stat was going away, so I'm not sure what you're on about there. It's just properly understanding RBI's Would Westie panic if RBIs went away?
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Sept 4, 2019 17:58:22 GMT -5
I'm sure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 13:44:50 GMT -5
How do some of you feel about runs scored, that is a stat that I think has been overlooked over the yrs
Yes, its somewhat team oriented but -- it is a measure of base running, getting on base and some speed
Doubles and runs scored are underrated
Hit a double you already have a man in scoring position -- one reason why I have liked Nick Markakis is that he has been a great doubles man in his time here - I know its a moot point in convincing anyone to change their minds on that, but I brought it us cause I value the deadly double
One of the reasons why I am not a Heyward fan is his low amount of doubles (other reasons of course) - poor Cubs four more yrs on that ill advised one
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Sept 6, 2019 15:36:14 GMT -5
Runs scored is mostly a reflection of other stats like OBP, and those who bat after you.
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Post by keystone61 on Sept 6, 2019 22:18:19 GMT -5
Runs scored is probably an underrated statistic, really, or at least under appreciated. Sure, lead-off guys benefit from having the best hitters behind them, but a good lead-off guy like Acuna does a lot of the work, too. It's a statistic that no one ever really talks about. I guess it just ain't sexy.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Sept 6, 2019 22:58:11 GMT -5
It is under appreciated because the impetus behind it shows in other stats.
OBP..
Everyone cares about OBP and they talk about it. Runs scored is only a byproduct of OBP x the guys batting behind you.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Sept 6, 2019 23:12:12 GMT -5
I think runs scored and RBIs have just become accepted as team stats, because that's what they are (in my opinion anyway). I'm not sure in the long run we really need to have one stat that shows a players actual individual contribution, it may just be a fad right now that will burn out. But it does make for interesting points and discussions.
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Post by keystone61 on Sept 6, 2019 23:40:27 GMT -5
They're team stats to an extent, obviously, but at the same time, it's no coincidence that the best hitters get more of them than anyone else.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Sept 7, 2019 0:10:20 GMT -5
They're team stats to an extent, obviously, but at the same time, it's no coincidence that the best hitters get more of them than anyone else. Well looks can be somewhat deceiving just to accept it on that level. It's a given that the best hitters are probably going to be the best at everything, but it's not as lopsided as one would expect if you delve into it all. I've used this example for years--Nick Markakis is viewed as a clutch RBI opportunist and Heyward viewed as an RBI choker--but look at their RISP numbers for their careers, not that drastically different:
Nick:
RISP: .288/.375/.427/.802 RISP 2/outs: .268/.372/.399/.771
Heyward:
RISP: .263/.370/.392/.762 RISP 2/outs .271/.410/.437/.847
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 8:29:42 GMT -5
Runs scored is probably an underrated statistic, really, or at least under appreciated. Sure, lead-off guys benefit from having the best hitters behind them, but a good lead-off guy like Acuna does a lot of the work, too. It's a statistic that no one ever really talks about. I guess it just ain't sexy. As I see it, its underappreciated and to look at runs scored, I have to do research on my favorite site (I prefer baseball reference) to look at who were the leaders in runs scored in yrs past - almost no one remembers who scores the most runs I think you and I are on more the same page in that for myself I prefer basic easier to compute compilation statistics over the metrics of today And the OBP and OPS is a part of it though OPS is more geared to the power hitters - but this new fangled stuff like RC+ and weighted numbers, you lose me and forget the formula of WAR In the end, if someone is around better players, is he not going to have better numbers overall no matter what, so are not nearly all stats team oriented to a point I do not want one theoritical number to measure a players value, hence that is why I reject WAR, VORP etc. No one has ever determined who the proverbial replacement player is, whom that might be And nerds like Brian Kenny and Keith Law have done their share to ruin the game compared to what we once knew, I really cannot stand Brian Kenny who is the most annoying of all modern sportscasters
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