|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Mar 27, 2018 20:28:23 GMT -5
I think OBP has always been a part of baseball discussion. I remember always looking at it back in the late 70’s and early 80’s.
On Kemp... even when hitting well he was still only marginal because of the D.
|
|
|
Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Mar 27, 2018 20:42:04 GMT -5
Kemp hit 19 homers in 115 games, but was so bad on defense that he was worth -0.5 WAR. That's epically bad. Well Nightman, it was a tale of two different seasons for Kemp -- quite good when he was in shape and helpful in his lineup presence And P-Poor most of the last say, 60 percent of the season when he had a Kelly Clarkson body and was not hitting much. My eye test could tell that without an advanced equation, but in the end as I said -- those advanced numbers are not going away. Neither are HRS and RBI's. But the one thing that has come out of the woodwork that was never paid attention to is the OBP -- I never understood why it was not a part of the discussion back in my favorite time of the 70's and early to mid 80's A walk is not a failure -- so in the end a successful hitter is good if he succeeds one third of the time -- a .330ish OBP is what I call a good OBP. Power is an added bonus and its reflected in other numbers. Sorry, but his defense was bad all year. The two different seasons you're talking about is one half being where he was productive on offense and the other half where he wasn't. I wasn't born in the '70's, so I have no explanation for why it wasn't talked about, but I'd imagine it's for the same reason you don't talk about OPS, which is OBP + SLG; which judges not just how often a player gets on base, but often he does so via extra base hit.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Mar 27, 2018 22:24:02 GMT -5
Kemp hit 19 homers in 115 games, but was so bad on defense that he was worth -0.5 WAR. That's epically bad. Well Nightman, it was a tale of two different seasons for Kemp -- quite good when he was in shape and helpful in his lineup presence And P-Poor most of the last say, 60 percent of the season when he had a Kelly Clarkson body and was not hitting much. My eye test could tell that without an advanced equation, but in the end as I said -- those advanced numbers are not going away. Neither are HRS and RBI's. But the one thing that has come out of the woodwork that was never paid attention to is the OBP -- I never understood why it was not a part of the discussion back in my favorite time of the 70's and early to mid 80's A walk is not a failure -- so in the end a successful hitter is good if he succeeds one third of the time -- a .330ish OBP is what I call a good OBP. Power is an added bonus and its reflected in other numbers. Sorry, but his defense was bad all year. The two different seasons you're talking about is one half being where he was productive on offense and the other half where he wasn't. I wasn't born in the '70's, so I have no explanation for why it wasn't talked about, but I'd imagine it's for the same reason you don't talk about OPS, which is OBP + SLG; which judges not just how often a player gets on base, but often he does so via extra base hit. Kemp didn't have a good first half of the season last year, it was just April and May. His OPS for June was .644, which is about what it was for the rest of the season after May ended.
|
|
Cheaters2
Low A Farmhand
Is really CheatersRus
All Seeing
Posts: 762
Likes: 55
|
Post by Cheaters2 on Mar 30, 2018 17:46:34 GMT -5
Kemp hit 19 homers in 115 games, but was so bad on defense that he was worth -0.5 WAR. That's epically bad. Well Nightman, it was a tale of two different seasons for Kemp -- quite good when he was in shape and helpful in his lineup presence And P-Poor most of the last say, 60 percent of the season when he had a Kelly Clarkson body and was not hitting much. My eye test could tell that without an advanced equation, but in the end as I said -- those advanced numbers are not going away. Neither are HRS and RBI's. But the one thing that has come out of the woodwork that was never paid attention to is the OBP -- I never understood why it was not a part of the discussion back in my favorite time of the 70's and early to mid 80's A walk is not a failure -- so in the end a successful hitter is good if he succeeds one third of the time -- a .330ish OBP is what I call a good OBP. Power is an added bonus and its reflected in other numbers. Sorry, but his defense was bad all year. The two different seasons you're talking about is one half being where he was productive on offense and the other half where he wasn't. I wasn't born in the '70's, so I have no explanation for why it wasn't talked about, but I'd imagine it's for the same reason you don't talk about OPS, which is OBP + SLG; which judges not just how often a player gets on base, but often he does so via extra base hit. Is Defensive Metrics really reliable? I mean it uses the eye test doesn't it more than it does actual Numbers? Kemp had a .993 fielding percent. which isn't horrible. yes He looked horrible and it was painful to watch him run but he did have a .993 fielding percent. Do they take how fluid a player looks into consideration? How can they say Player A would have gotten to a ball that Player B doesn't there is just so many variables on a batted ball there is no way to know? But having said all this yes Kemp is still not as good a defensive player as a league average player but I also do not think his defense cost the team as much as his offence helped the team when healthy
|
|
|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Mar 30, 2018 21:13:36 GMT -5
Actually a lot of defensive metrics use things other than the eye test. I’m no expert, but I think when looking at range of a fielder, they use real measurements of distance covered and such.
Errors are one thing, but you are not going to make an error if you take a lumbering and round about angle to the ball and never get to it.
Neck doesn’t make errors, but there are a lot of balls that fall in for hits that other RF would have been able to get to. He doesn’t make throwing errors, but there are some assists on put outs he doesn’t make that a stronger armed RF would have made.
The thing is that a HR or RBI is more tangible than a run given up because you couldn’t get to a ball. That tangibility is why its easy to value the run scored more than the run saved.
|
|