|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Mar 25, 2018 8:30:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Mar 25, 2018 12:01:55 GMT -5
I support advanced statistics.
Change my mind.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Mar 25, 2018 12:43:17 GMT -5
I support advanced statistics. Change my mind. JASON HEYWARD!!! HE'S THE POSTER CHILD FOR WAR BEING BAD!!! HIS DEFENSE WAS OVER VALUED BY SABER STATS!!! JUST LOOK AT HIS WAR THE LAST TWO YEARS WHEN HE HAD TERRIBLE OFFENSIVE SEASONS AND YOU"LL SEE THAT WHEN HIS OFFENSE DROPPED OFF...... his war went way down. from like 6 to 1. uh, nevermind.
|
|
|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Mar 25, 2018 13:41:41 GMT -5
I sense a certain level of mockery here.
If anyone wants to debate the merits of some stats vs others, then pay no attention to the hooligans!
|
|
|
Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Mar 25, 2018 15:45:51 GMT -5
I sense a certain level of mockery here. If anyone wants to debate the merits of some stats vs others, then pay no attention to the hooligans! Well, I was being serious, LOL. I was taking the Steven Crowder approach.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Mar 25, 2018 17:22:49 GMT -5
I did make a point.
A very valid one.
Just sayin'.
|
|
|
Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Mar 25, 2018 17:32:08 GMT -5
I did make a point. A very valid one. Just sayin'.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Mar 25, 2018 18:03:22 GMT -5
Better contact str0k3r
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 19:02:56 GMT -5
Neither advanced stats or the traditional stats are going away. In the end its all about information though as for WAR, to this day I still ask, Wins Above Replacement of what? No one has defined that proverbial replacement level player. Is it your bench guy, or your one dimensional player. And which replacement level guy has more use than the other.
For the maligned of Kemp (and he was bad in the second half of last yr) is his 0.5 WAR any more useless than some light hitting league average defensive player
You cannot say he was not useful for the first say, third of the yr, maybe a little more. Now I am one who was for moving him but I am just illustrating this as an example of WAR and what is the replacement of what?
Does that less than one WAR guy have a skill you need on your team like say, power to hit 30 HRS in your lineup but has a poor glove? Or, an exceptional SB speed or a good defensive guy in a position -- WAR and weighted averages are not the end all and be all
The advanced numbers can give you some useful info (especially on the defensive side and reliever values) but the game is not all paradigmed in numbers alone, the game is not played in an X-box so there is use on both sides
Old school stats post historic results. That is not that disputable
Advanced numbers -- big equations that hope to give you probable future predictions -- long way from perfect and none of it should be -- there is still a place for hunches and gut decisions
|
|
south6987
Rec Ball
Cornfield Partier
Posts: 60
Likes: 13
|
Post by south6987 on Mar 26, 2018 19:38:51 GMT -5
Eye test rules!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Mar 26, 2018 19:59:08 GMT -5
No one has defined that proverbial replacement level player. I'm pretty sure it has been, and it's pretty simple. A "replacement player" would be a guy who is so average he would not help your team win any extra games, nor would he cause your team to lose any games. Net. Over the course of time. He would have a 0.0 WAR. That's always been my interpretation of that. If Kemp could hit 30 HR's, his defense was so poor he offsets a lot of that offense by giving it up on defense. Just because a team needs a power hitter doesn't mean they also don't need a good OF on defense too.
|
|
|
Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Mar 26, 2018 20:53:13 GMT -5
No one has defined that proverbial replacement level player. I'm pretty sure it has been, and it's pretty simple. A "replacement player" would be a guy who is so average he would not help your team win any extra guys, not would he cause your team to lose any games. Net. Over the course of time. He would have a 0.0 WAR. That's always been my interpretation of that. If Kemp could hit 30 HR's, his defense was so poor he offsets a lot of that offense by giving it up on defense. Just because a team needs a power hitter doesn't mean they also don't need a good OF on defense too. Kemp hit 19 homers in 115 games, but was so bad on defense that he was worth -0.5 WAR. That's epically bad.
|
|
|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Mar 26, 2018 21:43:51 GMT -5
Well only if you over value defense!!
|
|
|
Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Mar 27, 2018 0:00:21 GMT -5
I use the eye test, so I can't be wrong.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 18:24:18 GMT -5
Kemp hit 19 homers in 115 games, but was so bad on defense that he was worth -0.5 WAR. That's epically bad.
Well Nightman, it was a tale of two different seasons for Kemp -- quite good when he was in shape and helpful in his lineup presence
And P-Poor most of the last say, 60 percent of the season when he had a Kelly Clarkson body and was not hitting much. My eye test could tell that without an advanced equation, but in the end as I said -- those advanced numbers are not going away. Neither are HRS and RBI's. But the one thing that has come out of the woodwork that was never paid attention to is the OBP -- I never understood why it was not a part of the discussion back in my favorite time of the 70's and early to mid 80's
A walk is not a failure -- so in the end a successful hitter is good if he succeeds one third of the time -- a .330ish OBP is what I call a good OBP.
Power is an added bonus and its reflected in other numbers.
|
|