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Post by TomlinFoolery on Aug 11, 2020 9:44:27 GMT -5
I'm totally onboard with believing we have an organizational issue with pitchers. The lack of development with so many of them points to a problem, and the very few success stories do not alleviate those concerns. Absolutely. I mean yes its unrealistic to expect 4 or 5 guys like Soroka and Fried come through every year, but one would think having a few solid to just around league average pitchers to eat 5 innings shouldn't be as impossible as it seems to be. They aint gotta light the world on fire, but is it too much to ask of this organization to come up with pitchers who are better than 2-3 innings allowing 5+ runs every time out? With the failure to develop pitching, letting guys like Anibal Sanchez just walk Way really hurts and they are paying for it right now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 12:29:38 GMT -5
Actually, I rank Yo Yo Reybum as the worst of the worst, of the entire ATL history of the franchise he was so horrible Aaron Blair was nearly as bad. Chuck James, if I remember right it was injuries that cut his career As bad as Newk is, Jo Jo is the king of worst ever Brave Reyes Blair James Wisler Newcomb Foltynewicz as far as more recent times go. Too early yet on Wright, but he's leaning on the flop side. Id be tempted to toss Wilson in as well, just haven't seen anything at all from him, though it's still early in his case too. Bottom line is its pretty disappointing how lacking the organization is at developing young starting pitching. We forgot about Kyle Davies who was never that good with us and bounced around KC without much success. Actually Chuck James was fairly decent in 2005 and 06 till the injuries cut him short. As for Folty, given the totality of his career I would put him in the class of glass half empty (unfulfilled promise) rather than a total bust. Even in 2016 and 17 as well as late last yr we did see some good but when he is bad, watch out. Chris Ellis, that is another one of the young arms that did not work. Another thing we have seen is that when guys are good, they get cut short with major injuries as in the Medlen/Minor/Hansen generation with others around that time And for Teheran, while not a bad career, certainly not the potential we thought we would see. Yea, something is not working with the powers that be too much unfulfilled potential or, is the org overrating its prospects
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Post by keystone61 on Aug 11, 2020 13:12:10 GMT -5
I think teams focus too much on the big fastball and try to turn everybody into a power pitcher. It's not just the Braves.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 11, 2020 13:15:38 GMT -5
I hated that Muellers growth is stunted by having to take a year off, he may end up being better than Anderson.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 17:24:44 GMT -5
I think teams focus too much on the big fastball and try to turn everybody into a power pitcher. It's not just the Braves. It does seem to be something that has gone on for the last 10-15 yrs Seems to be a 21st century thing where they have forgotten how to teach guys to pitch Back in the golden age of the game (I see that age in that stretch from 1969 to 1993) not everybody was throwing 90, not everyone had to be a Nolan Ryan or a Seaver. And teams and guys who were good enough still won. Some guys broke down, (Fidrych, Steve Busby) but that happens with every generation. Our own Steve Avery broke down early Seems guys of the 70s and 80s found a way to last longer and were more durable
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 11, 2020 20:47:22 GMT -5
I think teams focus too much on the big fastball and try to turn everybody into a power pitcher. It's not just the Braves. It does seem to be something that has gone on for the last 10-15 yrs Seems to be a 21st century thing where they have forgotten how to teach guys to pitch Back in the golden age of the game (I see that age in that stretch from 1969 to 1993) not everybody was throwing 90, not everyone had to be a Nolan Ryan or a Seaver. And teams and guys who were good enough still won. Some guys broke down, (Fidrych, Steve Busby) but that happens with every generation. Our own Steve Avery broke down early Seems guys of the 70s and 80s found a way to last longer and were more durable Because they threw a lot on their off days, but they only threw at about 60-75%. Just kept their arms stretched out. That and not trying to throw every pitch 99 mph during games kept their arms healthy.
One thing that's always surprised me is that more guys don't throw split fingered fastballs. That's the single hardest pitch to hit, and it only has to be upper 80's lower 90's to be completely unhittable.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 20:51:59 GMT -5
Because they threw a lot on their off days, but they only threw at about 60-75%. Just kept their arms stretched out. That and not trying to throw every pitch 99 mph during games kept their arms healthy.
One thing that's always surprised me is that more guys don't throw split fingered fastballs. That's the single hardest pitch to hit, and it only has to be upper 80's lower 90's to be completely unhittable.
That split fingered fastball, aah, remember Mike Scott - quite a good pitcher for the Astros for a 5,6 stretch in the 80's And that pitch turned him from a journeyman pitcher to a legit star for a stretch. Brings back memories back in the day And I believe that Leo had his pitchers throw on their off days - why the powers that be do not listen to guys like he and Smoltz is beyond me. Who the H are they listening to today, Brian Kenny? LOL
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 11, 2020 21:07:59 GMT -5
Because they threw a lot on their off days, but they only threw at about 60-75%. Just kept their arms stretched out. That and not trying to throw every pitch 99 mph during games kept their arms healthy.
One thing that's always surprised me is that more guys don't throw split fingered fastballs. That's the single hardest pitch to hit, and it only has to be upper 80's lower 90's to be completely unhittable.
That split fingered fastball, aah, remember Mike Scott - quite a good pitcher for the Astros for a 5,6 stretch in the 80's And that pitch turned him from a journeyman pitcher to a legit star for a stretch. Brings back memories back in the day And I believe that Leo had his pitchers throw on their off days - why the powers that be do not listen to guys like he and Smoltz is beyond me. Who the H are they listening to today, Brian Kenny? LOL I think I've heard that when Mazzone was around our pitchers threw some almost every day, just light duty.
Bruce Suter was the king of that split finger, but even nowadays there's some guys around who have a good one, what a great pitch to have and it doesn't require a lot of velocity, in fact it needs to be thrown a little slower. What a no brainer to develop that pitch.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Aug 11, 2020 21:20:02 GMT -5
Yes.. Leo had guys throw almost everyday, even if it was just tossing.
This was actually a course of conflict after he moved on. New little coddled snowflakes came along and were incensed that he didn't want their arms in bubble wrap for 2 days after they pitched.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 21:30:24 GMT -5
Leo did not have the same success in Baltimore, don't know alot of what happened there but given their history this century, hard to believe it was that much his fault, other than a few yrs under Buck Showalter, what a mess of a sports franchise and you can go back even before the turn of the century.
Obviously he did not have the professionals to work with there he had here not to mention dealing with the snowflake generation
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