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Post by Drkirby on Jun 26, 2018 10:57:49 GMT -5
You know, a man feels bad for a kid like Sims. He's still just 24 years old, so it ain't like he's outta time, but the Braves are in a pennant race, and just can't afford to throw away innings while guys like him are cuttin' teeth. That's just the way it is. They’re notgiving him a fair shot by switching him from starting to relieving and expecting him to perform in the clutch.
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Post by keystone61 on Jun 26, 2018 11:54:45 GMT -5
The need for a long reliever would be greatly reduced if our starters could learn how to pitch deeper into games. If Folty had been able to go at least six last night, we never would have turned to Sims and would have probably won the game in 9 innings. Part of our pen's problem is that guys are being called upon too early and too often. I wish someone like Glavine would pull Folty aside and teach him how to attack the strike zone, especially after getting two strikes. I agree, but it seems like throwing a lot of pitches is the M.O. for pitchers these days, so it's not just Folty and it's not just the Braves.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 26, 2018 12:44:26 GMT -5
The need for a long reliever would be greatly reduced if our starters could learn how to pitch deeper into games. If Folty had been able to go at least six last night, we never would have turned to Sims and would have probably won the game in 9 innings. Part of our pen's problem is that guys are being called upon too early and too often. I wish someone like Glavine would pull Folty aside and teach him how to attack the strike zone, especially after getting two strikes. I agree, but it seems like throwing a lot of pitches is the M.O. for pitchers these days, so it's not just Folty and it's not just the Braves. Yes, 5-6 innings is pretty standard now for all starters all around baseball. It's pretty nuts.
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Post by keystone61 on Jun 26, 2018 13:24:40 GMT -5
I agree, but it seems like throwing a lot of pitches is the M.O. for pitchers these days, so it's not just Folty and it's not just the Braves. Yes, 5-6 innings is pretty standard now for all starters all around baseball. It's pretty nuts. Which begs the question.........WHY is everyone so hung up on a kids who throw upwards of 95? Doesn't anyone appreciate the art of pitching anymore? Hey, I love an overpowering fastball as much as the next guy, but the goal is to get three outs per inning without anybody scoring a run, correct? How did this get lost?
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jun 26, 2018 13:29:28 GMT -5
I agree, but it seems like throwing a lot of pitches is the M.O. for pitchers these days, so it's not just Folty and it's not just the Braves. Yes, 5-6 innings is pretty standard now for all starters all around baseball. It's pretty nuts. I don't necessarily buy that. If you look at the top 15 in the majors in ERA, all of them except four are averaging more than 6 IP per start. The only ones who aren't - Snell of TB, Skaggs of LAA, and Folty and Newk.
In fact, here's our starters and their average IP:
Folty - 5.6 Newk 5.8 Teheran - 5.4 McCarthy - 5.2 Soroka - 5.0 Sanchez - 5.6
It's hard to fathom that not ONE of them is averaging in the 6's. It's something in the philosophy of how their being coached IMHO.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 26, 2018 15:04:53 GMT -5
Yes, 5-6 innings is pretty standard now for all starters all around baseball. It's pretty nuts. I don't necessarily buy that. If you look at the top 15 in the majors in ERA, all of them except four are averaging more than 6 IP per start. The only ones who aren't - Snell of TB, Skaggs of LAA, and Folty and Newk.
In fact, here's our starters and their average IP:
Folty - 5.6 Newk 5.8 Teheran - 5.4 McCarthy - 5.2 Soroka - 5.0 Sanchez - 5.6
It's hard to fathom that not ONE of them is averaging in the 6's. It's something in the philosophy of how their being coached IMHO.
Well you're talking about the elite pitchers in baseball.
By and large, the huge majority of all starting pitchers are going 5-6 innings.
And I don't think we should expect our youngsters to be in the elite group just yet, even though they are pitching that way so far this year.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 26, 2018 15:07:00 GMT -5
Yes, 5-6 innings is pretty standard now for all starters all around baseball. It's pretty nuts. Which begs the question.........WHY is everyone so hung up on a kids who throw upwards of 95? Doesn't anyone appreciate the art of pitching anymore? Hey, I love an overpowering fastball as much as the next guy, but the goal is to get three outs per inning without anybody scoring a run, correct? How did this get lost? And that's the whole problem. I posted a video here 3-4 weeks ago about a scientific study that shows we've reached the max potential of a human's throwing arm, and that the human arm and all associated parts are not made to be able to withstand guys throwing 95-100 constantly. Either teams need to get more sensible, or somebody needs to talk to god about improving the human arm some. The only person I know who could fit that role would be bravepap.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jun 26, 2018 15:29:31 GMT -5
I don't necessarily buy that. If you look at the top 15 in the majors in ERA, all of them except four are averaging more than 6 IP per start. The only ones who aren't - Snell of TB, Skaggs of LAA, and Folty and Newk.
In fact, here's our starters and their average IP:
Folty - 5.6 Newk 5.8 Teheran - 5.4 McCarthy - 5.2 Soroka - 5.0 Sanchez - 5.6
It's hard to fathom that not ONE of them is averaging in the 6's. It's something in the philosophy of how their being coached IMHO.
Well you're talking about the elite pitchers in baseball.
By and large, the huge majority of all starting pitchers are going 5-6 innings.
And I don't think we should expect our youngsters to be in the elite group just yet, even though they are pitching that way so far this year.
I 'll have to take your word on this. I haven't watched much baseball outside of the Braves so they are my main benchmark. I guess I'm just old school. I continually find my blood pressure rising when our guys hit 20+ pitches in the 1st inning. I think I'd be better off if they would remove that pitch count graphic.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 26, 2018 15:37:22 GMT -5
Well you're talking about the elite pitchers in baseball.
By and large, the huge majority of all starting pitchers are going 5-6 innings.
And I don't think we should expect our youngsters to be in the elite group just yet, even though they are pitching that way so far this year.
I 'll have to take your word on this. I haven't watched much baseball outside of the Braves so they are my main benchmark. I guess I'm just old school. I continually find my blood pressure rising when our guys hit 20+ pitches in the 1st inning. I think I'd be better off if they would remove that pitch count graphic. I watch some baseball outside of the Braves, not a lot, not as much as I wish I could, but I also glance at a lot of forums, and all teams fans are complaining about their starters only going 5-6 innings and taxing the bullpens.
I think it's all ridiculous. It's all come about because of limiting pitch counts from the time they are kids.....they never build up an endurance, to last, and then over throw too much and can only pitch shorter stretches.
And to me, there's too much nibbling, trying to strike everybody out, instead of trusting your stuff like guys used to do. Pitching to contact is not a bad thing, soft grounders and soft pop ups don't hurt a thing and take fewer pitches.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jun 26, 2018 15:50:53 GMT -5
I 'll have to take your word on this. I haven't watched much baseball outside of the Braves so they are my main benchmark. I guess I'm just old school. I continually find my blood pressure rising when our guys hit 20+ pitches in the 1st inning. I think I'd be better off if they would remove that pitch count graphic. I watch some baseball outside of the Braves, not a lot, not as much as I wish I could, but I also glance at a lot of forums, and all teams fans are complaining about their starters only going 5-6 innings and taxing the bullpens.
I think it's all ridiculous. It's all come about because of limiting pitch counts from the time they are kids.....they never build up an endurance, to last, and then over throw too much and can only pitch shorter stretches.
And to me, there's too much nibbling, trying to strike everybody out, instead of trusting your stuff like guys used to do. Pitching to contact is not a bad thing, soft grounders and soft pop ups don't hurt a thing and take fewer pitches.
Agreed. I think we all got spoiled by the likes of Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz, Neagle, Avery, Millwood, Hudson, etc. They wouldn't pussyfoot around when they got two strikes. Nowadays, it's just a different mindset and personally, I can't stand it.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 26, 2018 15:56:50 GMT -5
I watch some baseball outside of the Braves, not a lot, not as much as I wish I could, but I also glance at a lot of forums, and all teams fans are complaining about their starters only going 5-6 innings and taxing the bullpens.
I think it's all ridiculous. It's all come about because of limiting pitch counts from the time they are kids.....they never build up an endurance, to last, and then over throw too much and can only pitch shorter stretches.
And to me, there's too much nibbling, trying to strike everybody out, instead of trusting your stuff like guys used to do. Pitching to contact is not a bad thing, soft grounders and soft pop ups don't hurt a thing and take fewer pitches.
Agreed. I think we all got spoiled by the likes of Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz, Neagle, Avery, Millwood, Hudson, etc. They wouldn't foot around when they got two strikes. Nowadays, it's just a different mindset and personally, I can't stand it. Yep. How often does an 0-2 count end up being an 8, 9, or 10 pitch AB now? It's insane. I used to wonder if maybe we should give hitters credit for making things harder on pitchers nowadays, but with the new shift to swinging for the fences, that's not the case. Pitchers just do too much assing around! But it's all over baseball. I think we tend to be on the more ridiculous end of it a little, but it's common all over now.
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Post by Drkirby on Jun 26, 2018 16:26:29 GMT -5
Last nights Ump was terrible too. So give that to Folty. Several of his first inning pitches shouldn’t have been thrown because Votto should’ve struck out looking
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Post by keystone61 on Jun 26, 2018 17:26:25 GMT -5
I've always thought that speed differential and movement were the keys to pitching effectively. If the fastball is 90 with movement, and you can throw a change at 70-75, that's tough for a hitter to handle. Throw in a decent breaking ball of some kind, and you've got yourself a damn good pitcher. Newk seems to be learning this, although his speeds are higher than that now. Guys need to realize you won't always be able to throw 98.
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Post by Drkirby on Jun 26, 2018 18:08:20 GMT -5
I've always thought that speed differential and movement were the keys to pitching effectively. If the fastball is 90 with movement, and you can throw a change at 70-75, that's tough for a hitter to handle. Throw in a decent breaking ball of some kind, and you've got yourself a damn good pitcher. Newk seems to be learning this, although his speeds are higher than that now. Guys need to realize you won't always be able to throw 98. Most guys try to throw harder, when in reality they should try to locate better.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 26, 2018 20:12:21 GMT -5
I've always thought that speed differential and movement were the keys to pitching effectively. If the fastball is 90 with movement, and you can throw a change at 70-75, that's tough for a hitter to handle. Throw in a decent breaking ball of some kind, and you've got yourself a damn good pitcher. Newk seems to be learning this, although his speeds are higher than that now. Guys need to realize you won't always be able to throw 98. I agree and deception has a lot to do with it too. Disguising you're pitches so they all look the same or close to it. Even if it's just in your delivery.
I heard John Smoltz talking one time and he said something that really made a lot of sense--he said it's really important as a pitcher to continually change the level of your pitches--if they're all about the same height, a batter's eye gets used to it and makes it easier for him to hone in on the ball. He said that's why you should constantly be going up and down as much as in and out. Even if it's just waste pitches. I'm not a big fan of wasting pitches, but that's the one time it make sense, and Smoltz pointed that out about wasting a pitch--it has value if it's to change the eye level of the hitter and keep him off balance.
All of these things are far more important than throwing 95-100 in my opinion. It's that old line about pitching rather than throwing.
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