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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 8, 2023 21:58:28 GMT -5
In my opinion Grissom is the only prospect that could be used with any trade value, and his value is likely not that high since he showed so poorly with the glove. You would have to throw in one or two more prospects with Grissom to get anything, and we do not have a 2nd and 3rd prospect to throw in. I think he is more valuable to use to hang onto and assume he will become a serviceable OFer or even maybe a DH after Blowzuna is gone, than to just throw away and not even get much of a return. I could be wrong but I don't think the prospect the Phillies gave up for Lorenzen was even in their top 30. No where near a Grissom caliber player. Lorenzen is a 2 month rental so it didn't take much. Detroit was probably happy just to get maybe something of small value. Like you, I wouldn't give up Grissom unless it was part of a package for something a lot bigger than a rental player. And Lorenzen is nothing special. No way I'd trade Grissom for something like that even if you had Lorenzen for 3-4 more years.
For perspective, Dodd and Shuster are in our top 5 prospects. Fangraphs has a "fv" rating (future value) on a scale of 20-80. The 112th ranked MLB prospect has a 50 fv, our top prospect is considered Smith-Shawver and his fv is 45.
I'm not addressing you because I know you're well aware of this, but you can't just loosely throw out the word "prosects" as in "trade them 3 or 4 prospects." There's a huge difference in having 5, 6 or 7 prospects in the top 100 and having none in the top 120.
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Post by keystone61 on Aug 8, 2023 22:16:56 GMT -5
There's definitely work to do down on the farm.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 8, 2023 22:29:09 GMT -5
There's definitely work to do down on the farm. Which doesn't even concern me right now because we have almost an entire lineup signed for many years. But we do need to draft well and start developing guys over the next 5 years so we're ready for the eventual turnover and next wave. I think we need to keep in mind we've been ridiculously lucky with Harris, Strider and Elder, by all rights they shouldn't even be in the majors yet and would be top prospects under normal circumstances, but they bucked the odds and were ready for the big leagues much sooner than they should have been.
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joeyg39
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Post by joeyg39 on Aug 8, 2023 23:04:08 GMT -5
In my opinion Grissom is the only prospect that could be used with any trade value, and his value is likely not that high since he showed so poorly with the glove. You would have to throw in one or two more prospects with Grissom to get anything, and we do not have a 2nd and 3rd prospect to throw in. I think he is more valuable to use to hang onto and assume he will become a serviceable OFer or even maybe a DH after Blowzuna is gone, than to just throw away and not even get much of a return. I could be wrong but I don't think the prospect the Phillies gave up for Lorenzen was even in their top 30. No where near a Grissom caliber player. Lorenzen is a 2 month rental so it didn't take much. Detroit was probably happy just to get maybe something of small value. Like you, I wouldn't give up Grissom unless it was part of a package for something a lot bigger than a rental player. Lee was the Phillies #8 prospect.. Probably Braves equivalent to Darius Vines or the ss Tavarez.
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joeyg39
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Post by joeyg39 on Aug 8, 2023 23:08:22 GMT -5
Btw...not sure if posted, but x rays were negative on Acuña's elbow...Dodged a yuge bullet there.
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maverick86
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Post by maverick86 on Aug 8, 2023 23:09:26 GMT -5
I really hope Acuna is okay. We needed this win badly. Time to go on a nice winning streak of 7-8 games. We can do this.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Aug 9, 2023 7:32:18 GMT -5
Btw...not sure if posted, but x rays were negative on Acuña's elbow...Dodged a yuge bullet there. I hope so... especially with all that armor he wears.
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Post by PABraveFan on Aug 9, 2023 8:07:01 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I don't think the prospect the Phillies gave up for Lorenzen was even in their top 30. No where near a Grissom caliber player. Lorenzen is a 2 month rental so it didn't take much. Detroit was probably happy just to get maybe something of small value. Like you, I wouldn't give up Grissom unless it was part of a package for something a lot bigger than a rental player. Lee was the Phillies #8 prospect.. Probably Braves equivalent to Darius Vines or the ss Tavarez. If that's the case then I wouldn't have done a trade either to give up that much for a rental! I didn't see him on this list. Maybe he came in late.
Rojas, their #5 prospect on this list, has been pretty good since he was called up in the middle of July.
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Post by PABraveFan on Aug 9, 2023 8:10:55 GMT -5
There's definitely work to do down on the farm. Which doesn't even concern me right now because we have almost an entire lineup signed for many years. But we do need to draft well and start developing guys over the next 5 years so we're ready for the eventual turnover and next wave. I think we need to keep in mind we've been ridiculously lucky with Harris, Strider and Elder, by all rights they shouldn't even be in the majors yet and would be top prospects under normal circumstances, but they bucked the odds and were ready for the big leagues much sooner than they should have been. Yep, we got lots of years to stock up now thanks to all those we have already signed at good value. May even have enough money to get a few good free gents after we lose Ozuna and Charlie. Certainly looking good for the Braves the next 5-10 years.
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Post by PABraveFan on Aug 9, 2023 8:27:40 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I don't think the prospect the Phillies gave up for Lorenzen was even in their top 30. No where near a Grissom caliber player. Lorenzen is a 2 month rental so it didn't take much. Detroit was probably happy just to get maybe something of small value. Like you, I wouldn't give up Grissom unless it was part of a package for something a lot bigger than a rental player. And Lorenzen is nothing special. No way I'd trade Grissom for something like that even if you had Lorenzen for 3-4 more years.
For perspective, Dodd and Shuster are in our top 5 prospects. Fangraphs has a "fv" rating (future value) on a scale of 20-80. The 112th ranked MLB prospect has a 50 fv, our top prospect is considered Smith-Shawver and his fv is 45.
I'm not addressing you because I know you're well aware of this, but you can't just loosely throw out the word "prosects" as in "trade them 3 or 4 prospects." There's a huge difference in having 5, 6 or 7 prospects in the top 100 and having none in the top 120.
Oh, absolutely not. Grissom is worth way more than a 2 month rental. Lorenzen was intriguing to me because he could start and then move to the bullpen. He would have been a decent get but I'm not giving up any highly rated prospects and maybe that's what the Tigers wanted, if he was even considered. Also, with the possibility of Wright returning to either start or relive that's another reason not to give up talent for a 2 month rental. I'm glad AA sees the whole picture and has a great ability to evaluate these things because I'm sure it's a LOT more complicated and involved than we can imagine.
"There's a huge difference in having 5, 6 or 7 prospects in the top 100 and having none in the top 120. " We should be stocking up on them over the next 3,4,5 years. Hopefully we get back to having them in the top 100. If Detroit wanted a top 10 Braves prospect I would have nixed that idea too!
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 9, 2023 9:02:01 GMT -5
One thing I don’t get is why we are playing Grissom at 2nd base with Gwinnett. It seems like he should be playing LF there in preparation of being our LFer next year. We have a $9M club option with no buyout for 2024 with Rosario and we won’t be signing him again. And Grissom has no future in our infield, plus he’s ready to hit in the big leagues right now. He just needs time in the OF. The only other thought is they’re hoping he can improve his infield defense and raise his eventual trade value, I guess.
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Post by PABraveFan on Aug 10, 2023 9:07:04 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I don't think the prospect the Phillies gave up for Lorenzen was even in their top 30. No where near a Grissom caliber player. Lorenzen is a 2 month rental so it didn't take much. Detroit was probably happy just to get maybe something of small value. Like you, I wouldn't give up Grissom unless it was part of a package for something a lot bigger than a rental player. And Lorenzen is nothing special. No way I'd trade Grissom for something like that even if you had Lorenzen for 3-4 more years.
For perspective, Dodd and Shuster are in our top 5 prospects. Fangraphs has a "fv" rating (future value) on a scale of 20-80. The 112th ranked MLB prospect has a 50 fv, our top prospect is considered Smith-Shawver and his fv is 45.
I'm not addressing you because I know you're well aware of this, but you can't just loosely throw out the word "prosects" as in "trade them 3 or 4 prospects." There's a huge difference in having 5, 6 or 7 prospects in the top 100 and having none in the top 120.
"And Lorenzen is nothing special"
That didn't age well!!! LOL
Phillies' Michael Lorenzen throws no-hitter vs. Nationals
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Aug 10, 2023 10:22:20 GMT -5
Mike Foltynewicz and Sean Newcomb both came within eyelashes of throwing no-hitters.
They didn't age well either, lol
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Post by PABraveFan on Aug 10, 2023 11:39:02 GMT -5
Mike Foltynewicz and Sean Newcomb both came within eyelashes of throwing no-hitters. They didn't age well either, lol True and there are also many Hall of Fame pitchers, including Greg Maddux, who are special that never threw a no hitter. Just thought this was a bit ironic that we were just talking about him the same day and he goes out and throws no hitter that night. Maybe Lorenzen isn't special but for one game, he was!
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 10, 2023 11:52:50 GMT -5
Mike Foltynewicz and Sean Newcomb both came within eyelashes of throwing no-hitters. They didn't age well either, lol True and there are also many Hall of Fame pitchers, including Greg Maddux, who are special that never threw a no hitter. Just thought this was a bit ironic that we were just talking about him the same day and he goes out and throws no hitter that night. Maybe Lorenzen isn't special but for one game, he was! He has a career ERA of 4.00, I don't think that means he sucks, so he's capable of good things. I just didn't think it's smart to trade Grissom for a mediocre pitcher. Especially since the game will revert back to more small ball. Grissom didn't hit many HRs before he got to the big leagues and I think he's hit 4 this year. But he's hitting for average, like he's always done. So he'll be a little more valuable with the game changing. And it seems to me Lorenzen is one of those guys who has had some mental issues at times during his career. I don't think he's ever pitched for a good team, guys with mental issues seem to have it come out when they get into high pressure games.
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