bravepap
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Mean people suck!
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Post by bravepap on Apr 8, 2018 6:44:34 GMT -5
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Apr 8, 2018 7:45:50 GMT -5
I dunno...
On a slightly different bent on “closing”....
I’ve heard people say that outs are outs and getting the final 3 outs is no harder than getting 3 outs in the 5th inning. I’ve also played sports at a pretty high level and I can say my experience is that in some sports winning that final point or whatever is more difficult than winning a point earlier in a match.
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bravepap
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Mean people suck!
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Post by bravepap on Apr 8, 2018 7:59:47 GMT -5
I dunno... On a slightly different bent on “closing”.... I’ve heard people say that outs are outs and getting the final 3 outs is no harder than getting 3 outs in the 5th inning. I’ve also played sports at a pretty high level and I can say my experience is that in some sports winning that final point or whatever is more difficult than winning a point earlier in a match. Yeah, one of the dangers of evaluating everything via numbers is not accounting for ice water in the veins or Jello for nerves.....I just like reading Joe, whether I agree with him or not.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Apr 8, 2018 9:17:53 GMT -5
There is a psychology issue that comes into play during that match point or when you are the last out. I don’t think that disappears at any level, even the professional.
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bravepap
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Mean people suck!
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Post by bravepap on Apr 8, 2018 9:43:11 GMT -5
There is a psychology issue that comes into play during that match point or when you are the last out. I don’t think that disappears at any level, even the professional. I agree....Nobody wants to be "THAT GUY", but people absolutely handle things differently...which is why a closer has to have a very short memory. Viz has something like 3 innings under his belt this year so far....as with that poor Hosmer, I suspect things will get better.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Apr 8, 2018 10:29:29 GMT -5
It bothers me how the inning went down after 2 outs...
Viz has the tendency to overthrow and it happens with his breaking stuff... so he’s ahead 1-2 and instead of throwing a fastball which he couldn’t catch up to earlier.. we get two breaking balls, one in the dirt and another that is a wild pitch before we get another fastball. I felt the whole thing slipping away the moment he threw that first really bad breaking ball.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Apr 8, 2018 11:13:37 GMT -5
It bothers me how the inning went down after 2 outs... Viz has the tendency to overthrow and it happens with his breaking stuff... so he’s ahead 1-2 and instead of throwing a fastball which he couldn’t catch up to earlier.. we get two breaking balls, one in the dirt and another that is a wild pitch before we get another fastball. I felt the whole thing slipping away the moment he threw that first really bad breaking ball. I think it's ok to throw a "throwaway" breaking ball when a guy can't catch up to the fastball, just to set him up a little more, but then you come right back with a fastball. Not another breaking ball. Derp.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Apr 8, 2018 11:57:16 GMT -5
Eventually, baseball is gonna go back to multi-inning relievers, and IPs out of the bullpen is going to replace Saves as THE stat to base reliever salaries on.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Apr 8, 2018 12:41:23 GMT -5
It bothers me how the inning went down after 2 outs... Viz has the tendency to overthrow and it happens with his breaking stuff... so he’s ahead 1-2 and instead of throwing a fastball which he couldn’t catch up to earlier.. we get two breaking balls, one in the dirt and another that is a wild pitch before we get another fastball. I felt the whole thing slipping away the moment he threw that first really bad breaking ball. I think it's ok to throw a "throwaway" breaking ball when a guy can't catch up to the fastball, just to set him up a little more, but then you come right back with a fastball. Not another breaking ball. Derp. and especially when the first time it was quite wild. Plus everyone thinks you’re up 0-2 or 1-2 in the count and you just have to make that throw away to see if they will chase... but batters know that as well, so they probably expect it and look for it. Every now and then you go ahead and bust him with the 99mph heat... which he couldn’t catch up to when he was looking for it. Also...know your pitcher. Viz is a bit wild and that’s when he’s trying to throw it over the plate. Tell him to make a throwaway pitch off the plate and you’re liable to get... well, exactly what you got; One no one would ever offer at, and another that went to the backstop....
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Post by Fumbduckery on Apr 8, 2018 14:47:22 GMT -5
I think it's ok to throw a "throwaway" breaking ball when a guy can't catch up to the fastball, just to set him up a little more, but then you come right back with a fastball. Not another breaking ball. Derp. and especially when the first time it was quite wild. Plus everyone thinks you’re up 0-2 or 1-2 in the count and you just have to make that throw away to see if they will chase... but batters know that as well, so they probably expect it and look for it. Every now and then you go ahead and bust him with the 99mph heat... which he couldn’t catch up to when he was looking for it. Also...know your pitcher. Viz is a bit wild and that’s when he’s trying to throw it over the plate. Tell him to make a throwaway pitch off the plate and you’re liable to get... well, exactly what you got; One no one would ever offer at, and another that went to the backstop.... I agree. I heard Smoltz talking one day about how important it is to change the eye level of the pitches as much as anything and that's pretty smart--so that's one justification for throwing a curve--even if you throw 99 and the guy is behind it, if you keep giving him the exact same look he may catch up to it. But once you've wasted a pitch with that breaking ball and changed the eye level, then you should go right back to the fastball. Especially when the pitcher has chronic control issues.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 17:12:44 GMT -5
Having that special closer has a way of defining the roles of the other guys clearly & some guys can close, others can't When we had our best pens (like in the Smoltz and Kimbrel days) it had a way of making guys around him better Now, guys like Venters and O Flaherty were better than what he have now, but in the end that stopper has a way of definining the roles of guys around him & mentally you know when you need to go And a great arm does not mean a great closer -- what good is a great K arm if the guy cannot get the ball over the plate
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 17:21:20 GMT -5
I dunno... On a slightly different bent on “closing”.... I’ve heard people say that outs are outs and getting the final 3 outs is no harder than getting 3 outs in the 5th inning. I’ve also played sports at a pretty high level and I can say my experience is that in some sports winning that final point or whatever is more difficult than winning a point earlier in a match. Saying outs are outs, etc is not taking into consideration the personal aspect of the game The game is played by people, not some computer or statistical program. There is a mindset about closing the door on the opposing team and the closer is in the final stages of the game to secure the win Guys like Smoltz (when he closed) and Kimbrel had it, others like Viz and Farnsworth, sure then have the arms but not the consistency or mindset to be a closer with any consistency. Jim Johnson, he could throw up to 94, but he killed us last yr and his unreliability messed up the rhythem of the other guys around him The closer and the good 8th inning man if you are lucky enough to have both who are outstanding makes those around him better -- like an offensive minded d man in hockey who plays great both ways -- makes people better in big games
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Apr 14, 2018 17:44:42 GMT -5
If the game is played by people, do we really have the right to accuse them of quitting, or not trying?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 18:34:18 GMT -5
If the game is played by people, do we really have the right to accuse them of quitting, or not trying? As a team, I do think I have the right to say the Braves did not have their heads in the game in that 8th inning -- I do think there was a rare time of quitting or, at least not being into the game Did you see that inning? It was bad news bears at the MLB level That is what happens when your pen walks the dog at the park -- one of the worst innings in the franchise history -- it was bad And I hope that some guys who were the culprits in that inning do not get over it, get angry enough to play better and do not forget that inning the rest of their natural born life -- I am not forgiving for that I do not think guys quit except in rare circumstances -- maybe it was the weather or what ever but some guys did not earn their pay today
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Apr 14, 2018 18:40:33 GMT -5
If the game is played by people, do we really have the right to accuse them of quitting, or not trying? As a team, I do think I have the right to say the Braves did not have their heads in the game in that 8th inning -- I do think there was a rare time of quitting or, at least not being into the game Did you see that inning? It was bad news bears at the MLB level That is what happens when your pen walks the dog at the park -- one of the worst innings in the franchise history -- it was bad And I hope that some guys who were the culprits in that inning do not get over it, get angry enough to play better and do not forget that inning the rest of their natural born life -- I am not forgiving for that I do not think guys quit except in rare circumstances -- maybe it was the weather or what ever but some guys did not earn their pay today But being that the team is made up of players, is it right to criticize their mental fortitude? I say criticize the ability all you want, but to proscribe thoughts to them is over the line, IMO. Did these guys quit today? I don't even know where you can begin to believe such a thing. Not when players are human and to be human is to err. These guys tried. They just failed. Doesn't mean they didn't want to win. Just my two cents.
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