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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 28, 2021 23:33:11 GMT -5
What is your definition of "saving" this season? We win the division and then get bulldozed in the first round, that's a "saved" season?
I know you're the king of giving up on players, but you can't give up on Ball or Jackson. Well a normal person can't. There's way too much potential and only time will tell. And that time period is not within the next week or the next month.
I'm not even complaining about the moves we made, my whole point is no one can close the book on those deals. not for many more years, and several people here are trying to do that already.
If we win the division and have a first round exit, I am good with that considering all that has gone on and I would call that a saved season I hope we at least compete in the first round but a division title is a good season. Some cities would kill for a division title - just ask Mariners or Orioles fans - we really do have it good for the most part I am not pulling any punches, I want to win now and this has been a good run I will not lose sleep over every low A ball prospect to make the team better and as for Jackson well, I am not the only non believer. Its not like he is lights out down in Miami Most fans want to win now and will gladly sacrifice a guy like Ball who is struggling in A+ ball for immediate help to compete now and if he does develop 3 yrs from now more power to him. I do not wish Ball any ill will I understand your line of thinking, it's in line with the way most people think.
On the other hand, you have zero grasp of my point, which is simply you can't just write off and close the book on any young player who has shown potential. You are able to acknowledge they may get it someday, and yet you continue to write off all prospects at one point or another. Which is not surprising because you've also thrown every successful player down the elevator shaft at some point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2021 1:17:10 GMT -5
I understand your line of thinking, it's in line with the way most people think.
On the other hand, you have zero grasp of my point, which is simply you can't just write off and close the book on any young player who has shown potential. You are able to acknowledge they may get it someday, and yet you continue to write off all prospects at one point or another. Which is not surprising because you've also thrown every successful player down the elevator shaft at some point.
You do understand that 90 percent of the fan base do not even know who Bryce Ball is unless they seriously follow the system and were watching ST games seriously this yr and those who do get in no way he will be ready for at best two more yrs when he is 25. I don't see the potential when a guy struggles in A+ ball. The majority of prospects do not make it anyway the list is long from the days of Brad Kommisk to Braxton Davidson. You sometimes get more if you can move on and get immediate help when you are a contending team - prospect hoarding is for rebuilding teams and thank god we are not one of those and it was a fairly short build. Prospects are a pain in the ass to wait for more often than not. Once in a while you get an Ozzie or Acuna but they do not grow on trees those are the ones you have to be sure to keep as untouchable
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 29, 2021 2:19:17 GMT -5
I understand your line of thinking, it's in line with the way most people think.
On the other hand, you have zero grasp of my point, which is simply you can't just write off and close the book on any young player who has shown potential. You are able to acknowledge they may get it someday, and yet you continue to write off all prospects at one point or another. Which is not surprising because you've also thrown every successful player down the elevator shaft at some point.
You do understand that 90 percent of the fan base do not even know who Bryce Ball is unless they seriously follow the system and were watching ST games seriously this yr and those who do get in no way he will be ready for at best two more yrs when he is 25. I don't see the potential when a guy struggles in A+ ball. The majority of prospects do not make it anyway the list is long from the days of Brad Kommisk to Braxton Davidson. You sometimes get more if you can move on and get immediate help when you are a contending team - prospect hoarding is for rebuilding teams and thank god we are not one of those and it was a fairly short build. Prospects are a pain in the ass to wait for more often than not. Once in a while you get an Ozzie or Acuna but they do not grow on trees those are the ones you have to be sure to keep as untouchable Yes I understand that, I just said so when I said most people think the way you do. That doesn't make you or them right. I'm not saying I'm right when I talk about the potential of prospects and their importance, again I'm saying you can't just close the book on a guy because he struggles at A+ ball or anywhere else. And with Jackson we're talking about a guy who just had two great seasons in AAA and is struggling in his first 100 major league ABs. A normal person understands you can't judge a guy by that small of a sample size, especially when he's trying to take that step into the major leagues. You can't write him off as literally nothing already.
Most prospects don't make it, and it can be painful hanging in there with them. But when your team isn't going to pay the big money to compete financially with the big market teams, you're going to have to have a really good farm system and keep as many prospects as you can and hang in there with them, because they are going to have to be an important part of your franchise if you're going to keep winning year after year. There's just no way around that. You can't just throw guys away because they struggle in 100 ABs.
And to clarify with Ball, he actually killed rookie ball and A ball both, and he's had a .742 OPS in A+ ball this year, so it's not like he's not getting it at all. You're going by batting average, but he's going to be one of THOSE guys--he's going to be a lower BA guy, a good on base guy and hit for a lot of power. His OBP in A+ ball this year is .348. So I think it's fair to assume that opponents know he's a big power guy and they aren't giving him much to hit, which is probably causing him to walk a lot and also chase a lot because he probably knows the sooner he can hit a lot of home runs the sooner he can advance his levels.
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Post by keystone61 on Aug 29, 2021 8:43:44 GMT -5
I hate giving up prospects, I really do, and I totally understand that the Braves need them since they can't/won't spend big. The way I look at Ball is that he may get it, hell he might become a star for all we know, but generally speaking, first base is the easiest position to cover. You can convert most anybody to a first baseman.
As for Jackson, he's gonna be 26 in December, which means he's had 7 years of minor league ball. That's a LONG TIME for such a highly regarded prospect (1st round, 6th overall in 2014) to develop. That tells me something is missing that can't be taught. Again, I may well be wrong, but he seemed pretty expendable to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2021 10:15:28 GMT -5
All due respect I get and understand the points made in the past two posts. As most of us think, myself included you never know if its right or wrong until time has passed. But I do think given where the Braves are and the situation they were in a month ago, the moves just had the right feel at the time and early on it looks right for now.
Now will any of the guys given up develop into stars, we just do not know - even those young A ball pitchers like Kalish might turn into useful pieces down the road
As for the Braves spending - no they are not one of the big boys but the spending is right in the middle of the pack right now. We know what the big challenge will be this off season. It will be a challenge keeping this team together in a couple of yrs as guys on the team are getting closer to FA.
This yr its Freddie, next yr Dansby and Riley and Fried will have to be taken care of down the line. They are drawing - maybe they get closer to say, 10th in payroll as long as the money comes in and who knows if the team might be sold down the road.
The business of this game is unpredictable.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Aug 29, 2021 11:48:00 GMT -5
I hate giving up prospects, I really do, and I totally understand that the Braves need them since they can't/won't spend big. The way I look at Ball is that he may get it, hell he might become a star for all we know, but generally speaking, first base is the easiest position to cover. You can convert most anybody to a first baseman. As for Jackson, he's gonna be 26 in December, which means he's had 7 years of minor league ball. That's a LONG TIME for such a highly regarded prospect (1st round, 6th overall in 2014) to develop. That tells me something is missing that can't be taught. Again, I may well be wrong, but he seemed pretty expendable to me. First base may be easy to replace but not the power. FanGraphs rates Ball’s power at 70 which is pretty insane.
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Post by braves247 on Aug 29, 2021 12:10:07 GMT -5
hopefully get the series win today come on anderson be good today
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