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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Oct 31, 2018 18:42:33 GMT -5
i had the privilege of being the person to baptize my youngest son this past Sunday. In this crazy world, it was such a symbol of... I dunno.. the better things.
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Post by jahgentle on Nov 1, 2018 7:56:20 GMT -5
Beautiful moment my friend.
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Post by jahgentle on Nov 1, 2018 9:49:13 GMT -5
i had the privilege of being the person to baptize my youngest son this past Sunday. In this crazy world, it was such a symbol of... I dunno.. the better things. what denomination do you belong to?
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 1, 2018 11:02:32 GMT -5
I grew up Baptist but I attend a church that is non-denominational because they want to promote an open attitude towards all.
Knowing my doctrines fairly well they are blended between Baptist/Methodist.
Like the Baptists, we believe in following the example of Jesus and having full immersion baptisms.
Unlike the Baptists we allow women in leadership roles.
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Post by jahgentle on Nov 1, 2018 13:29:51 GMT -5
I grew up Baptist but I attend a church that is non-denominational because they want to promote an open attitude towards all. Knowing my doctrines fairly well they are blended between Baptist/Methodist. Like the Baptists, we believe in following the example of Jesus and having full immersion baptisms. Unlike the Baptists we allow women in leadership roles. Thanks,I had meant to ask you that in the past.I don't know much about their actual religious services but if I am not mistaken the Baptist are Sola Scriptura and once saved always saved? I have watched many American Baptist sermons and lectures over the years and they have been amazingly prophetic. You could debate whether it was a high intelligence, pattern recognition or outright prophetic but you can go back at least 50 years ago and these guys predicted the world we are living in today And by that I don't mean doom and gloom as they certainly weren't that, nor were they vague. No, every single problem you see in this world today you can find a Baptist preacher who said it was all coming and they were very specific. Perpetual warfare, false flags, Marxism,9/11 type event, The Patriot Act and loss of freedoms,attacks on Christianity, the false left/right paradigm of politics, the banksters, the perverts in the school system and the 'sex education' Hollywood's and the music business role in all this.on and on they nailed it all. Things people are just slowly waking up to today they were saying 10, 20 ,50 years ago and anybody can look that up.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 1, 2018 17:32:27 GMT -5
Yes Sola Scriptura , and once saved always saved. The thing about once saved always saved though it's pretty tricky, because saved implies true repentance and true repentance means turning away from sin. They also believe that means you turn away from sin for good so when you stumble ( and it's accepted you will), you will always know you are doing wrong and confess and repent with sincerity each and every time. So once saved always saved is not a license to kill.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 1, 2018 20:38:33 GMT -5
I grew up in a strict Southern Baptist church environment. Helfire, Brimstone, God with a giant swat-stick scare you into believing because you feared God's wrath. Everything was sin... one drink, sin. Playing any card game.. sin. Dancing.. sin. I have some serious issues with that. They twisted and stretched scripture to fit their slightly puritanical morality on you.
It wasn't until my later teenage years before I started hearing more about God's love, and grace. I had heard that before in terms of his ability to forgive, but I finally started hearing it a different way. Gone was the emphasis on what God was going to do to you if bad and that was replaced with concentrating on his Love.
I can see why my early church armosphere would turn people away from God if that was their only exposure to Christianity. I hate that it happens and I know people very angry at the very concept of belief because of it.
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Post by jahgentle on Nov 2, 2018 11:18:51 GMT -5
I grew up in a strict Southern Baptist church environment. Helfire, Brimstone, God with a giant swat-stick scare you into believing because you feared God's wrath. Everything was sin... one drink, sin. Playing any card game.. sin. Dancing.. sin. I have some serious issues with that. They twisted and stretched scripture to fit their slightly puritanical morality on you. It wasn't until my later teenage years before I started hearing more about God's love, and grace. I had heard that before in terms of his ability to forgive, but I finally started hearing it a different way. Gone was the emphasis on what God was going to do to you if bad and that was replaced with concentrating on his Love. I can see why my early church armosphere would turn people away from God if that was their only exposure to Christianity. I hate that it happens and I know people very angry at the very concept of belief because of it. That's a tough one. In general how to even teach a child about Christianity isn't at all easy and we are such flawed humans ourselves including the preachers. I do agree what you are talking about is bound to fail and leave one in a bitter place. So obviously that's not the way to go. It get's more complicated when I hear atheists talk about how it is brainwashing children as there is a lot of truth to that too. I see many who think they truly believe even as adults but to me it appears to be nothing but a brainwash. Of course you can argue everything in life is that way. Convincing a child they came from a monkey, life is just a random fluke, the universe is just an accident and there is no real purpose in life is pretty damn evil too. And that's our schools, our media, this world. So then liberal worldly church's are really the wrong path too. If I were to be bitter at this world my case would be more what the media programmed into me as a child throwing me down many wrong paths. By the time I was a teen I was doing some really wrong, harmful and dangerous things and that was all media influenced...or influenced by this ever increasingly liberal world that told my young mind what I was doing was normal. So from that point of view I could have used some brimstone and fire preaching. I just honestly don't know the answer to any of this and life is so complicated. Predestination does play such a huge role too. Then no two people are alike, no two Christians are alike or need to hear the same message. I mean when someone says a Christian is such and such a way you might as well just say a white person or American is such and such a way. False speech and generalizations that just aren't accurate at all. Time, place and country will change the effect of the gospel as well. You said they twisted the scriptures and I believe you of course but the message is pretty harsh to begin with. Take Mathew 7:14 for example. How is one supposed to interpret that and all the other scriptures that back that up? I take it as it is THAT difficult and 95% will fail. I look at it much like I would satori in Buddhism ...most will practice it their entire lives and never attain it. In most forms of Buddhism and Hinduism there is a concept of reincarnation and while not quite literal reincarnation it does offer hope. As does the concept of Purgatory in Catholicism...there is some hope. So I see that as a real flaw in sola scriptura if it get's rid of the idea of purgatory which I believe it always does. Without that you are left with heaven and hell and the 'VERY FEW" who ever make it. If we are to take that point of view, brimstone and fire talk starts to make the most sense. He say's the Kingdom is here now we just don't see it. OK, why not and if not now when? in 5 years? 10 years? 20? after we are dead? So when I think about all these things, it's to see anything that is not of God as a sin. If hell is to be really taken literally then what are most Christians doing? Wasting time would have to be the absolute worst thing a person could be doing if we are to take hell literally. So that would include playing cards or having a drink. I mean really think about it...HELL..eternal! I can't see how anyone can literally believe that yet waste time watching TV 6 hours a night, play on the net, play video games, be more concerned about money, sex, dating, or anything in this world. And from my experience that is what most Christians do. The difference between them and an atheist from this point of view is hard to detect. Sure they might go to church on Sunday's, do good deeds, charity(as many atheists do) but for the most part their lives are dedicated to this world the majority of the time and not Christ. And the large majority of the Church's greatest theologians and most Saint's agree with the view that most are damned, the gate is narrow and very, very few ever find it. The argument against that would be , no, just accept Jesus Christ as your savior, try to be a good person, repent of sins and you are basically good to go. The problem with that argument is it pits me against Jesus, God, Mary, Fatima, Our Lady of Akita,St Francis, St. Louis de Montfort, St Augustine, St. Jean Vianney, St.Regimius, St Philip Neri, Padre Pio.....I could go on here forever with 1000's of these names who all agree. Just the idea of getting into a debate or argument with Padre Pio about this or the concept of purgatory seems absurd and would take a real delusional ego on my part. And who is going to back me up in this debate with Padre Pio? My local Pentecostal Pastor? The Jehovah Witnesses? not arguing with anything you are saying btw...just sharing what's been in my mind lately
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 2, 2018 11:52:05 GMT -5
I have found that the brain-washed folk are the ones who claim they believe but have no real daily walk/relationship with Jesus/God.
Those who truly believe of their own volition have a daily personal relationship with Jesus. Not to sound corny, but that's really the only way to describe it. When you have that personal daily relationship, every day is an affirmation of your beliefs and it does not exist because you are force fed the material during your formative years.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 2, 2018 12:13:31 GMT -5
Matthew 7:14 isn't a harsh message. "Few" is a relative term and the gate may be small but it is open to all. The narrow path refers to the fact that there is only 1 way in; Jesus.
Not works or deeds, or living a good life. Jesus. His intercession on our behalf is what allows for the reconcilliation with the creator.
The twisting of scripture that I referred to was more about morality.. Claiming "be ye not drunk with wine" means any and all consumption of alcohol is sinful... things like that.
Maybe things not of God are a sin, but we were designed by him with an inbred desire for entertainment, passion, laughter, etc. The things of this world that bring us those things are often gifts from the creator.
It is our job to see and find God through all of that and most things on this earth can be sinful or not depending on how used. God knows however that we all fail his standards... all of the old testament proves that we can not live up to God's standards. That's what the Old Testament proves. Again showing there is only 1 path and it has nothing to do with us. It is Jesus.
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Post by jahgentle on Nov 2, 2018 15:49:52 GMT -5
I have found that the brain-washed folk are the ones who claim they believe but have no real daily walk/relationship with Jesus/God. Those who truly believe of their own volition have a daily personal relationship with Jesus. Not to sound corny, but that's really the only way to describe it. When you have that personal daily relationship, every day is an affirmation of your beliefs and it does not exist because you are force fed the material during your formative years. No, I don't think that sounds corny at all. Sure to many in the world we will always sound corny and insane but whatever. I call Mary my mother quite literally, she is.
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Post by jahgentle on Nov 2, 2018 15:52:04 GMT -5
Matthew 7:14 isn't a harsh message. "Few" is a relative term and the gate may be small but it is open to all. The narrow path refers to the fact that there is only 1 way in; Jesus. Not works or deeds, or living a good life. Jesus. His intercession on our behalf is what allows for the reconcilliation with the creator. The twisting of scripture that I referred to was more about morality.. Claiming "be ye not drunk with wine" means any and all consumption of alcohol is sinful... things like that. Maybe things not of God are a sin, but we were designed by him with an inbred desire for entertainment, passion, laughter, etc. The things of this world that bring us those things are often gifts from the creator. It is our job to see and find God through all of that and most things on this earth can be sinful or not depending on how used. God knows however that we all fail his standards... all of the old testament proves that we can not live up to God's standards. That's what the Old Testament proves. Again showing there is only 1 path and it has nothing to do with us. It is Jesus. "Matthew 7:14 isn't a harsh message. "Few" is a relative term and the gate may be small but it is open to all. The narrow path refers to the fact that there is only 1 way in; Jesus." Jesus and keeping all of his commandments which I would define as harsh. Not mean, not cruel but harsh discipline like a Zen master whacking you with a bamboo pole. I don't feel like He came and made things easier but often much more difficult like Matthew 5:28 for example. He got rid of some of the seemingly nonsensical Levitical laws but made the gate much narrower. "Not works or deeds, or living a good life. Jesus. His intercession on our behalf is what allows for the reconciliation with the creator." What about Mathew 5:48? "The twisting of scripture that I referred to was more about morality.. Claiming "be ye not drunk with wine" means any and all consumption of alcohol is sinful... things like that." That's where I think Church's can fail and it's not necessarily the Church's or the Minsters fault. They are teaching specif messages that are different for us all so whereas having a few beer may be perfectly fine for some it can be outright sin for others or even just bad on a human level leading down a bad road. Like there are millions who have a few pints every night, no problem but at the same time every alcoholic on the planet started with just one drink at some point. On a spiritual level I think it fails too due to Luke 12:48 and each person being in different circumstances. "Maybe things not of God are a sin, but we were designed by him with an inbred desire for entertainment, passion, laughter, etc. The things of this world that bring us those things are often gifts from the creator. It is our job to see and find God through all of that and most things on this earth can be sinful or not depending on how used. God knows however that we all fail his standards... all of the old testament proves that we can not live up to God's standards. That's what the Old Testament proves. Again showing there is only 1 path and it has nothing to do with us. It is Jesus." True and we can turn all of that to our advantage by using our own unique personalities and really go for full God absorption. Not everything has to be dry or dull. Like if one liked country music you could always listen to gospel instead of the sex, drugs and drinking often found in music. Not because of a neurotic desire to see everything as sinful but to take advantage of another opportunity for God absorption. I like the Rasta reggae for that reason. I feel like why waste any time on anything that doesn't bring God to my consciousness but don't think that needs to apply to everyone. My problem is I have been given endless grace and experiences and wasted way too much time in my life. The Luke 12:48 again. I've spent a lot of time being ungrateful.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 2, 2018 16:40:54 GMT -5
Matthew 5:48 is like all other verses in that it has to be taken in context and not applied to everything and anything. That is a mistake often made; a single verse is cherry picked out of scripture and applied as a universal statement to apply to whatever someone wants to apply it to.
That verse is arpund the sermon on the mount and comes in reference to loving your fellow man. Be ye perfect in that love as God is in his love for you. Love thy neighbor and all that.. a great commandment, and again it is what is to be strived for but not necessarily always achieved.
Always be wary of taking one piece of scripture away from the context in which it was spoken and examining it as if it exists in a vacuum.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 2, 2018 17:10:50 GMT -5
Oh and... Matthew 5:48 shows once more that we can not achieve what God requires, hence the need for the intercession of Christ on our behalf.
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Post by jahgentle on Nov 2, 2018 20:37:03 GMT -5
Matthew 5:48 is like all other verses in that it has to be taken in context and not applied to everything and anything. That is a mistake often made; a single verse is cherry picked out of scripture and applied as a universal statement to apply to whatever someone wants to apply it to. That verse is arpund the sermon on the mount and comes in reference to loving your fellow man. Be ye perfect in that love as God is in his love for you. Love thy neighbor and all that.. a great commandment, and again it is what is to be strived for but not necessarily always achieved. Always be wary of taking one piece of scripture away from the context in which it was spoken and examining it as if it exists in a vacuum. What I get out of the Sermon on the Mount and the Gospels as a whole is be perfect. Free of all anger, greed, jealously,lust, fear ..all of it. Transcendence of the ego, satori which is something many Hindu's and Buddhist's as well as Christian Saints have achieved in the past so it can be done. don't get me wrong I don't think I can do it but those states have been reached in the past many times so I would agree when you say to always strive for that and it's why I think doing anything else is a sin and/or a waste of the very limited time we have here
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