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Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 16, 2021 22:14:36 GMT -5
I hate to say it but Uck's prediction over the next 17 games might be right I was thinking or hoping along the lines of 8-9, but that might be too nice I think I counted wrong, I think it's actually 18 games, so 5-13 would be more like it. I believe the 17th game will played on July 31st, the trade deadline. So by then we should clearly be dumping anything we can.
What a train wreck of a season.
And seriously, I could see us going like 20-52 now to end the season. Once we get romped the next two and a half weeks and then dump Morton and everybody else (expect Panda and Tomlin) it's going to get real ugly.
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Post by keystone61 on Jul 16, 2021 22:15:13 GMT -5
Guys make pitching too difficult these days. As Don Sutton used to say, hitting is timing and pitching is throwing off that timing. Guys don't understand that anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 22:16:08 GMT -5
You just cannot trust anyone out of this bullpen. Damn Liberty Media and their tight purse strings! The personnel out of the pen is almost the same as last yr save for O Day and Melancon who wanted to go to the West Coast. But they have not performed up to last yrs standards. LM has done better the last few yrs with payroll but I will blast them again if something is not done with Freddie. I do not love LM but they did add some payroll in the Pederson trade.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 16, 2021 22:18:00 GMT -5
Gnats need two touchdowns and two 2 point conversions to tie San Diego.
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Post by TomlinFoolery on Jul 16, 2021 22:21:02 GMT -5
Pressure is on Alex to completely retool the bullpen in the offseason
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 22:22:13 GMT -5
I hate to say it but Uck's prediction over the next 17 games might be right I was thinking or hoping along the lines of 8-9, but that might be too nice I think I counted wrong, I think it's actually 18 games, so 5-13 would be more like it. I believe the 17th game will played on July 31st, the trade deadline. So by then we should clearly be dumping anything we can.
What a train wreck of a season.
And seriously, I could see us going like 20-52 now to end the season. Once we get romped the next two and a half weeks and then dump Morton and everybody else (expect Panda and Tomlin) it's going to get real ugly.
Its been a train wreck. I would like to keep Charlie for next yr. But if they are that far gone he could be flipped and they can try for him again in FA I really want absolutely ZERO part of another stinking rebuild. But a reset and work to make the team better for next yr and beyond, I sort of get it and maybe one of the obscure prospects they get if they sell out might amount to something I am not that upset about moving Ball, he is 23 yrs old, at least a couple of yrs away and is struggling in A+ ball. The ST might have been an outlier there have been plenty of guys in the past who had that one super spring and faded into obscurity. What they get out of Pederson is a fair question, I get the move for now. He too could be sold if all goes bad
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 22:24:21 GMT -5
Pressure is on Alex to completely retool the bullpen in the offseason Some of these guys need to pitch up to their ability AJ is one of those guys that is sometimes part of the solution, other times part of the problem Greene and Martin, they have not pitched up to their ability. I will put Will Smith on that too They looked like they could be projected as a decent pen coming into the yr, but I put most of this on the players who have not performed
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 16, 2021 22:26:55 GMT -5
I think I counted wrong, I think it's actually 18 games, so 5-13 would be more like it. I believe the 17th game will played on July 31st, the trade deadline. So by then we should clearly be dumping anything we can.
What a train wreck of a season.
And seriously, I could see us going like 20-52 now to end the season. Once we get romped the next two and a half weeks and then dump Morton and everybody else (expect Panda and Tomlin) it's going to get real ugly.
Its been a train wreck. I would like to keep Charlie for next yr. But if they are that far gone he could be flipped and they can try for him again in FA I really want absolutely ZERO part of another stinking rebuild. But a reset and work to make the team better for next yr and beyond, I sort of get it and maybe one of the obscure prospects they get if they sell out might amount to something I am not that upset about moving Ball, he is 23 yrs old, at least a couple of yrs away and is struggling in A+ ball. The ST might have been an outlier there have been plenty of guys in the past who had that one super spring and faded into obscurity. What they get out of Pederson is a fair question, I get the move for now. He too could be sold if all goes bad We don't need to rebuild, we have enough of a core to just retool on the run, but they need to dump everything they can at the deadline. Obviously the pen and a good starter is the priority.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 22:33:45 GMT -5
We don't need to rebuild, we have enough of a core to just retool on the run, but they need to dump everything they can at the deadline. Obviously the pen and a good starter is the priority. What has been perplexing about the pen is that the overall personnel is nearly the same as last yr save for Melancon (who may have wanted to pitch elsewhere) and O Day who had previous injuries and is aging anyway. Its the existing guys who save for Luke Jackson have just not performed. Luke has been better but the rest of em for whatever reason did not get the job done And you just never know what you are getting from AJ Minter who was good last yr And, what the heck is this thing with Anderson and his shoulder, what are we doing with our best young pitchers. Why was he thrown out there his last start if something is going on there. I see some regression with his control and I am not blaming him, I question if our existing program is helping him and out other young guys Our development program is the one that needs a rebuild with better people who can coach our young talent up
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Post by TomlinFoolery on Jul 16, 2021 22:36:59 GMT -5
#Braves lost 7-6 in 10. They are 1-11 in games tied after 8 innings, after going 2-1 in those games in 2020.
pitiful
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Post by braves247 on Jul 16, 2021 23:22:22 GMT -5
come september or even before that i would let wilson wright muller etc be in the rotation or BP just let them go and see what happens and maybe they will help going into next year because with so many holes we need help from with in to fill some of them
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Post by braves247 on Jul 16, 2021 23:24:32 GMT -5
David O'Brien @dobrienatl 30m #Braves hitters are 3-for-52 (.058) in the ninth inning or later in games tied entering the ninth this season. Freddie Freeman had one of those hits tonight with his ninth-inning infield single.
holy crap that is terrible wowzers
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Post by keystone61 on Jul 17, 2021 6:10:32 GMT -5
Bullpens have to constantly be redone. AA doesn't seem to grasp that reality of modern baseball. Guys are in the bullpen for one primary reason; they aren't good enough to be starters. Some become dominant out of the pen. Most don't. That means it is by definition a revolving door.
I understand keeping Minter after he was good last year, but you knew he was very shaky. Tomlin? STUPID to keep him. You knew Greene had never had 2 good years in a row, and you knew that Smith had never been a closer, and that Sean Newcomb can't throw strikes.
A lot of mistakes were made with the pen, mostly the unwillingness to take a hard look at it and turn it over. No matter what the rest of the team does, they will fail because of the ineptitude of the bullpen. AA has never been good with the pen, and don't give me the salary/business end of it excuse. Most pen guys make relatively little money. You're better off paying a guy to sit at home than to keep guys that suck balls. IMO. You're seeing just how important they are this year. We're in first place with just a decent bullpen, in spite of all the other problems.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jul 17, 2021 7:04:51 GMT -5
It's no longer true that pitchers are in the pen because they are not good enough to start. That was true years ago, but today players are groomed for the pen starting in high school.
It is true that pens have to constantly be reworked but to say AA has never been good with the pen is a bit confusing considering we had one of the best pens in baseball last season.
The mistakes that were made with the pen were mainly on the right hander side, and trusting Smith as a closer when he had been so shaky in 2020. AA trusted those 34 saves he had in SF, and assumed 20's issues were late start/COVID anomalies. The biggest mistake though was made on the right hander side. We lost two solid right handers in O'Day and Melancon, and replaced them with..... nothing. Other than Luke, the RH pen was a joke from day 1, and that caused an over reliance on the left handers: Newcomb with a history of control issues, Minter with a history of inconsistency, and Smith. Even under the best circumstances, Newk and Minter are basically the same pitcher. Matzek was over-worked early, and Smith has been Smith.
The lack of anything other than Luke from the right side has been the killer. No variety out of the pen.. just a parade of lefties with similar stuff thrown out there time and time again. O'Day's delivery and Melancon gave our pen the diversity required to be effective. Only two losses, but two huge losses that completely changed the outlook of our pen.
Some of us called it from day 1, before the 1st pitch was thrown. The weakness of the right handed side of the pen was going to be the teams biggest issue.
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Post by wncbravesfan on Jul 17, 2021 9:19:25 GMT -5
21. Count them. 21 bullpen losses this year. IF we win half of them (10 games) we are 1st in the division and have 54 wins at this point. That is how bad this bullpen is and how much they can make a difference.
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