|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jul 28, 2020 15:08:18 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts...
Remember a couple of years ago when we kept adding pitcher after pitcher and some people complained? This is why you can never have enough pitching in your organization.
I am very disappointed with how we've done developing a lot of our young pitching talent. We've drafted and added a lot of arm talent that doesn't seem to really know how to be a pitcher, and then we have failed to teach them.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 28, 2020 15:37:49 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts... Remember a couple of years ago when we kept adding pitcher after pitcher and some people complained? This is why you can never have enough pitching in your organization. I am very disappointed with how we've done developing a lot of our young pitching talent. We've drafted and added a lot of arm talent that doesn't seem to really know how to be a pitcher, and then we have failed to teach them. Funny how they all fit the same patterns and won't trust their stuff. That's what worries me about there being an organizational issue with bringing these kids along.
|
|
|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jul 28, 2020 15:44:55 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts... Remember a couple of years ago when we kept adding pitcher after pitcher and some people complained? This is why you can never have enough pitching in your organization. I am very disappointed with how we've done developing a lot of our young pitching talent. We've drafted and added a lot of arm talent that doesn't seem to really know how to be a pitcher, and then we have failed to teach them. Funny how they all fit the same patterns and won't trust their stuff. That's what worries me about there being an organizational issue with bringing these kids along. Yep... we acquire the same type of pitcher and then seem to do try and develop them as something else... or something. It is definitely not working.
|
|
|
Post by keystone61 on Jul 28, 2020 15:59:26 GMT -5
Funny how they all fit the same patterns and won't trust their stuff. That's what worries me about there being an organizational issue with bringing these kids along. Yep... we acquire the same type of pitcher and then seem to do try and develop them as something else... or something. It is definitely not working. Thank God Soroka knows what he's doing. We probably tried to turn him into a power pitcher, too. Folty never fit the profile of a power pitcher. He looks like he weighs about 140 pounds with narrow shoulders. He's listed at 220. If he's 220, then I'm about 350. I'd be willing to bet that his velocity ain't coming back.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 28, 2020 16:17:05 GMT -5
I think there's something going on with Folty's arm, he knows it and the Braves know it. Remember he "tweeked" something right at the start of spring training in 2019 and missed 6-8 weeks (maybe more?) before he even started throwing again.
He did have the highest average fastball in the big leagues a couple of years ago, and he can be really dominant.....recall game 2 against the Cardinals last year, but he cannot put it together and stay consistent. He had a really good 10-11 game run last year when he finally got straightened out after his arm problem, but there's definitely something really weird going on with him physically. He's always had mental issues but throw in some thing or maybe multiple physical issues and he's fried right now.
I'm as sick as anyone of watching him flop, but this is a very curious time to just completely give up on him, since our staff is so thin. It makes me think they know something is bad wrong. If that's not the case and he goes somewhere and pitches well right away then this was a dumb knee jerk reaction. I get it, but with us not having really anybody to fall back on right now this better be a for sure bad problem and not just us being mad at him because we're fed up being patient.
|
|
|
Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jul 28, 2020 16:32:58 GMT -5
I agree about something being wrong, but I also think maybe he's been being difficult and not very amiable when they are trying to coach him up.
|
|
|
Post by TomlinFoolery on Jul 28, 2020 16:36:56 GMT -5
I think there's something going on with Folty's arm, he knows it and the Braves know it. Remember he "tweeked" something right at the start of spring training in 2019 and missed 6-8 weeks (maybe more?) before he even started throwing again.
He did have the highest average fastball in the big leagues a couple of years ago, and he can be really dominant.....recall game 2 against the Cardinals last year, but he cannot put it together and stay consistent. He had a really good 10-11 game run last year when he finally got straightened out after his arm problem, but there's definitely something really weird going on with him physically. He's always had mental issues but throw in some thing or maybe multiple physical issues and he's fried right now.
I'm as sick as anyone of watching him flop, but this is a very curious time to just completely give up on him, since our staff is so thin. It makes me think they know something is bad wrong. If that's not the case and he goes somewhere and pitches well right away then this was a dumb knee jerk reaction. I get it, but with us not having really anybody to fall back on right now this better be a for sure bad problem and not just us being mad at him because we're fed up being patient.
I think there is something wrong with him internally, as in medical issue that needs to be addressed. He looks so frail framed right now and his eyes have that sunken in look, in some images he even looks a little jaundiced. I think the man is legitimately sick and not just "sports ill". Poor guy looks like a skeleton right now. He needs thorough medical evaluation imo asap. Whatever that may be wrong with him may be creating weakness that is causing the drop in his fastball velocity. Then again, might just be looking to much into it, but as a layman with no medical training or degree, he still has a pronounced ill appearance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 17:33:39 GMT -5
I do wish Folty well & maybe he can hook up with the kind of organization that can work to his strengths. As for this yr, hey to a degree you kind of have to give everybody a pass to some degree.
Its not that he is a bad guy and last yr he took his demotion professionally & for a time was pitching much much better - even had one good game in the playoffs.
I do not know if he should be shut down for health reasons
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 17:40:31 GMT -5
And as for young pitchers who did not develop, its not just this collection of Hart/Coppy pitchers who have underperformed.
For the past 20 yrs we have had guys like Kyle Davies, Chuck James and Horacio Ramirez who never reached it due mostly to injuries. A little earlier there was Jason Marquis, up and down career but never a real consistent stud. Step above journeyman type. There was Adam Wainwright whom we traded away - that is one stud that we sort of developed. This was the early 2000's
And forward a little later it was the generation of Jo Jo Reyes (pretty good stuff but could never get it together) and Charlie Morton bounced around till he figured it out later in his career. Also Tommy Hanson who started well for 2 and a half yrs then it was the down turn (injuries and who knows what else). Jose Campillo, never knew what happened to him but he was not that bad for one yr in 2008.
I know I am missing others. Maybe Folty might be another Charlie Morton - for his sake wish him well
The point of my ramble is its been a good long time we have really developed pitching - good starting pitching that is. Hanson was one that really was supposed to be a keeper. Sad tragic end
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 28, 2020 17:53:42 GMT -5
And as for young pitchers who did not develop, its not just this collection of Hart/Coppy pitchers who have underperformed. For the past 20 yrs we have had guys like Kyle Davies, Chuck James and Horacio Ramirez who never reached it due mostly to injuries. A little earlier there was Jason Marquis, up and down career but never a real consistent stud. Step above journeyman type. There was Adam Wainwright whom we traded away - that is one stud that we sort of developed. This was the early 2000's And forward a little later it was the generation of Jo Jo Reyes (pretty good stuff but could never get it together) and Charlie Morton bounced around till he figured it out later in his career. Also Tommy Hanson who started well for 2 and a half yrs then it was the down turn (injuries and who knows what else). Jose Campillo, never knew what happened to him but he was not that bad for one yr in 2008. I know I am missing others. Maybe Folty might be another Charlie Morton - for his sake wish him well The point of my ramble is its been a good long time we have really developed pitching - good starting pitching that is. Hanson was one that really was supposed to be a keeper. Sad tragic end Do you mean José Capellán? He never stuck in the big leagues and was really bad whenever he got a chance anywhere. Dude died of a heart attack at home in Philadelphia on April 7, 2015, aged 34. Capellán's wife said that he had problems with the drug Ambien, which is used for sleeping disorders. (according to Wikipedia).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 18:10:17 GMT -5
Do you mean José Capellán? He never stuck in the big leagues and was really bad whenever he got a chance anywhere. Dude died of a heart attack at home in Philadelphia on April 7, 2015, aged 34. Capellán's wife said that he had problems with the drug Ambien, which is used for sleeping disorders. (according to Wikipedia). Capellan is right, my bad - I forgot about him dying young. Yea, he really struggled after 2008 and never stuck. BTW, upon a little more research we did have some pretty good development with the Mike Minor, Brandon Beachy and Kris Medlen group but major injuries took them down. Minor is still around - not a bad career but Beachy and Medlen are a couple we all wish could have been healthy but the game is not won with What If For the past 20 yrs that is about the only group we have really had some good development with and I will include Hanson with that group cause he did pan out early
|
|
|
Post by TomlinFoolery on Jul 28, 2020 19:37:51 GMT -5
Wright looking like another name to add to the loooooooooooing list of Braves pitching busts.
Haven't had truly good pitching throughout since the days of the big 3.
|
|
|
Post by keystone61 on Jul 28, 2020 20:12:51 GMT -5
Wright looking like another name to add to the loooooooooooing list of Braves pitching busts. Haven't had truly good pitching throughout since the days of the big 3. We need to give Wright a real chance. Not just a spot start here and there. He needs to relax and just trust himself. Stop walking guys and start challenging hitters. A solo homer is a helluva lot better than a bunch of walks. The stuff is outstanding.
|
|
|
Post by keystone61 on Jul 28, 2020 20:36:19 GMT -5
I didn't mean to sound cold about Folty being so skinny, but I agree that something physical seems to be going on with him. He looks sick to me. I hope the kid is OK.
|
|
|
Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 28, 2020 21:19:24 GMT -5
One difference for me with Wright is that he has not had control problems in the minors. He's just having trouble bringing it to the big leagues. You look at Newcomb, he's struggled with it all through the minors.
I agreed with a Cardinals fan to a trade of Newcomb for Carson Kelly late in 2018. Kelly had a real nice year for Arizona last year.
|
|