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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 16, 2021 21:39:30 GMT -5
This tread needs to be pinned. This team is completely lost and has no fire at all. It's a dumpster fire.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 16, 2021 21:57:55 GMT -5
The ironic thing is the more we keep scoring runs and the bullpen keeps blowing up, the less it looks like anything is Snitker's fault.
There's no way I would have thrown Muller into the fire tonight like that, it was stupid in my opinion, but at this point it's not a question of whether or not to put an asshat in the game from the pen, it's a matter of WHICH asshat.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 16, 2021 22:52:13 GMT -5
I'll disagree a bit on that one.
Faced with what we have in the pen this year, a good manager would recognize when someone from the pen is on and doesn't throw a lot of pitches, let them go a second inning.
A few games ago, Martin was lights out and only threw 8 pitches, Snit pulled him and then the next guy blew it.
This game Matzek was on and only threw 8 pitches. Snit pulled him and the next guy blew it.
He's intent on running through every damn guy in the bullpen until he finds the one that will blow up.
Plus the other crap wrong with this team like a fundamental lack of understanding of baserunning..
There is plenty of fault to throw at Snit even with the players being so bad.
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Post by TomlinFoolery on Jun 16, 2021 22:56:47 GMT -5
I thought originally it would take something deeply scandalous to warrant Snitker getting fired. But his mismanagement is just abysmal. Debuts a freshly called up pitching prospect against the heart of one the best offenses in MLB in a one run game. Uses the worst guys out of the pen he possibly can(though the options arent exactly sparkling). Just sooooooo much stuff he does that's just almost inconceivable. He and Kranitz both need to go.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 16, 2021 23:06:55 GMT -5
It's not even like I think if we had a better manager we would magically be in 1st place; we wouldn't be....
... but the crap I see out there from the lack of understanding the pen situation and maybe letting a reliever go for more than one.. to the throwing of the guy fresh up from the minors into a tight game... to the use of Tomlin when better options were sitting there.. to the repeated unforgivable base-running errors... to letting Ozzie go to bat without telling him to make a reeling pitcher throw a strike before even thinking of swinging...
This manager is a moron.
The players can be bad and the manager can still be an idiot. You can judge those things independently of one another and bad performance by players does not excuse bad management.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 16, 2021 23:13:16 GMT -5
I can also add the penchant to run players into the ground and continuing to start them in the midst of 3+ week slumps under the guise of "letting them play through it while we go 5-10" and "showing faith in guys so they all will love you like they do their doddering old grandpa".
I'll give there is a LOT of fault on the players but the old saying goes that you can't fire the whole team.
Maybe this team needs to hear a message that says "playing like absolute idiots and performing badly has consequences, as in getting a good guy you like playing for fired".
Maybe that's the exact message several guys on this team need to hear.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 16, 2021 23:14:34 GMT -5
I'll disagree a bit on that one. Faced with what we have in the pen this year, a good manager would recognize when someone from the pen is on and doesn't throw a lot of pitches, let them go a second inning. A few games ago, Martin was lights out and only threw 8 pitches, Snit pulled him and then the next guy blew it. This game Matzek was on and only threw 8 pitches. Snit pulled him and the next guy blew it. He's intent on running through every damn guy in the bullpen until he finds the one that will blow up. Plus the other crap wrong with this team like a fundamental lack of understanding of baserunning.. There is plenty of fault to throw at Snit even with the players being so bad. Yes, that's true, I even used Muller tonight as a stupid move....he's going to make stupid moves even though the pen is so bad, he's going to find a way to make matters worse by doing stupid things like he always does. But I guess I was making the point that to the casual fan they're going to just throw their hands up and say oh well, the pen is so bad, there's nothing Snitker could do anyway, not his fault.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 16, 2021 23:21:09 GMT -5
I'll disagree a bit on that one. Faced with what we have in the pen this year, a good manager would recognize when someone from the pen is on and doesn't throw a lot of pitches, let them go a second inning. A few games ago, Martin was lights out and only threw 8 pitches, Snit pulled him and then the next guy blew it. This game Matzek was on and only threw 8 pitches. Snit pulled him and the next guy blew it. He's intent on running through every damn guy in the bullpen until he finds the one that will blow up. Plus the other crap wrong with this team like a fundamental lack of understanding of baserunning.. There is plenty of fault to throw at Snit even with the players being so bad. Yes, that's true, I even used Muller tonight as a stupid move....he's going to make stupid moves even though the pen is so bad, he's going to find a way to make matters worse by doing stupid things like he always does. But I guess I was making the point that to the casual fan they're going to just throw their hands up and say oh well, the pen is so bad, there's nothing Snitker could do anyway, not his fault. That is very true, and that's what separates casual fans from people that know the game. It's just like how winning blinds people from seeing critical flaws in a manager that will keep you from ever reaching the pinnacle.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 16, 2021 23:28:22 GMT -5
Yes, that's true, I even used Muller tonight as a stupid move....he's going to make stupid moves even though the pen is so bad, he's going to find a way to make matters worse by doing stupid things like he always does. But I guess I was making the point that to the casual fan they're going to just throw their hands up and say oh well, the pen is so bad, there's nothing Snitker could do anyway, not his fault. That is very true, and that's what separates casual fans from people that know the game. It's just like how winning blinds people from seeing critical flaws in a manager that will keep you from ever reaching the pinnacle. Yep, and that's why Snitker won't be fired this season and I expect him to still be our manager next year.
Unless AA is watching all this closer than I expect and just has a sudden jolt of genius, he's probably happy with Snitker. Snitker got put on a pedestal for several years and now (to the casual fan) we've had all kinds of things go wrong this year and it's all beyond Snitker's control, so keep him around.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 17, 2021 0:10:39 GMT -5
I think AA is in a difficult position here.
I think anyone worth their salt knows Snitker is a minor league manager bozo. He may have even been the right guy for the right moment for a rebuilding team, but he also has to understand the PR side of things and how most fans are the casual type.
Firing Snit is a potential PR nightmare, and what happens afterwards better be darn good or AA is on that hot seat himself. Such is the conundrum a "nice guy" manager brings about.
I'm just sick of it myself. I'm 57 years in and have seen 2 championship teams amongst 5 professional sports.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 17, 2021 1:42:32 GMT -5
I think AA is in a difficult position here. I think anyone worth their salt knows Snitker is a minor league manager bozo. He may have even been the right guy for the right moment for a rebuilding team, but he also has to understand the PR side of things and how most fans are the casual type. Firing Snit is a potential PR nightmare, and what happens afterwards better be darn good or AA is on that hot seat himself. Such is the conundrum a "nice guy" manager brings about. I'm just sick of it myself. I'm 57 years in and have seen 2 championship teams amongst 5 professional sports. I hadn't even thought it all through when I made my post, I was just rambling about how AA might look at all of this, but you make a really good point there. And I do get the feeling that firing Snitker this year is a zero percent chance thing, and almost zero during the offseason. Then no matter how bad things are next year, AA wouldn't even consider it then unless there was some kind of massive public outcry.
I don't know if there's any call in radio shows in the Atlanta area where real fans actually address real topics, but if there are I would imagine AA would be catching hell right now for being the guy who put this bullcrappen together.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 17, 2021 6:06:09 GMT -5
There isn't much outcry. Many Atlanta fans have fallen for the "he's a nice guy" and "three division titles" narrative, and can't see past the bad bullpen.
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Post by keystone61 on Jun 17, 2021 6:32:31 GMT -5
I think AA is in a difficult position here. I think anyone worth their salt knows Snitker is a minor league manager bozo. He may have even been the right guy for the right moment for a rebuilding team, but he also has to understand the PR side of things and how most fans are the casual type. Firing Snit is a potential PR nightmare, and what happens afterwards better be darn good or AA is on that hot seat himself. Such is the conundrum a "nice guy" manager brings about. I'm just sick of it myself. I'm 57 years in and have seen 2 championship teams amongst 5 professional sports. I hadn't even thought it all through when I made my post, I was just rambling about how AA might look at all of this, but you make a really good point there. And I do get the feeling that firing Snitker this year is a zero percent chance thing, and almost zero during the offseason. Then no matter how bad things are next year, AA wouldn't even consider it then unless there was some kind of massive public outcry.
I don't know if there's any call in radio shows in the Atlanta area where real fans actually address real topics, but if there are I would imagine AA would be catching hell right now for being the guy who put this bullcrappen together.
Hiring Chipper Jones would end any potential PR issues, no?
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 17, 2021 7:17:47 GMT -5
Possibly..
If Chipper even wanted the job.
...but I don't see us firing Snit anyway..
.... Plus there are all sorts of things behind the scenes that we know nothing about. Our reaction is extremely visceral and passion driven whereas the organizations view is somewhat different.
Last night for example... very emotional. I lost my shiz with the Acuña base running blunder. I am pretty smart about knowing the right time to do things as a coach and I get that these are grown men, but if I was the manager there would have been a scene in that dugout that the cameras would have caught. I would have ripped him a new arsehole in front of everyone, and he wouldn't be playing the next game. This season is done for anyway, so I don't care if that cost us the next game.
Not being able to do that, I took it on Snit for not doing it... but we all know that just isn't him.
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Post by keystone61 on Jun 17, 2021 8:08:07 GMT -5
Possibly.. If Chipper even wanted the job. ...but I don't see us firing Snit anyway.. .... Plus there are all sorts of things behind the scenes that we know nothing about. Our reaction is extremely visceral and passion driven whereas the organizations view is somewhat different. Last night for example... very emotional. I lost my shiz with the Acuña base running blunder. I am pretty smart about knowing the right time to do things as a coach and I get that these are grown men, but if I was the manager there would have been a scene in that dugout that the cameras would have caught. I would have ripped him a new arsehole in front of everyone, and he wouldn't be playing the next game. This season is done for anyway, so I don't care if that cost us the next game. Not being able to do that, I took it on Snit for not doing it... but we all know that just isn't him. Washington coaches these guys to be aggressive on the bases, and Seitzer coaches them to be aggressive with the bat, but that's no excuse for players being stupid. Players are dumber than ever, which is a bit puzzling to me since they play more than they ever have. The 2 examples from last night are typical. Why would Ozzie swing at the first pitch from a guy who was on the brink of collapsing, particularly given the location of the pitch? Why does Acuña not understand that his run is meaningless in that situation, and that the out he is giving away is VERY precious? There are only 2 possible answers, stupid or selfish, and I'm going with stupid.
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