Cheaters2
Low A Farmhand
Is really CheatersRus
All Seeing
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Post by Cheaters2 on Nov 25, 2019 23:25:40 GMT -5
Everyone goes on about Snit only pitching Soroka once in playoffs yet everyone wanted a manager who would use analytics. And that's what Snit did. Everyone gave him data that Soroka needed to pitch on the road to have the best chance. And Snit listened to his staff and front office. Snit is the best Manager in the NL period
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 25, 2019 23:55:45 GMT -5
Everyone goes on about Snit only pitching Soroka once in playoffs yet everyone wanted a manager who would use analytics. And that's what Snit did. Everyone gave him data that Soroka needed to pitch on the road to have the best chance. And Snit listened to his staff and front office. Snit is the best Manager in the NL period lol, do you have some proof that's how it happened?
Because I'd be willing to bet Snitker did the opposite and went with his veteran presents over rookies gut and pushed Soroka back for that reason.
Why would he ignore analytics for two full seasons then finally care when the playoffs start?
And are road splits versus home splits really even analytics? Teams have been paying attention to that for a long time, way before advanced stats ever came along.
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Post by mauibravefan on Nov 26, 2019 0:00:08 GMT -5
Everyone goes on about Snit only pitching Soroka once in playoffs yet everyone wanted a manager who would use analytics. And that's what Snit did. Everyone gave him data that Soroka needed to pitch on the road to have the best chance. And Snit listened to his staff and front office. Snit is the best Manager in the NL period I think Cheaters belongs on the Astros forum board
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Cheaters2
Low A Farmhand
Is really CheatersRus
All Seeing
Posts: 762
Likes: 55
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Post by Cheaters2 on Nov 26, 2019 2:47:49 GMT -5
Everyone goes on about Snit only pitching Soroka once in playoffs yet everyone wanted a manager who would use analytics. And that's what Snit did. Everyone gave him data that Soroka needed to pitch on the road to have the best chance. And Snit listened to his staff and front office. Snit is the best Manager in the NL period lol, do you have some proof that's how it happened?
Because I'd be willing to bet Snitker did the opposite and went with his veteran presents over rookies gut and pushed Soroka back for that reason.
Why would he ignore analytics for two full seasons then finally care when the playoffs start?
And are road splits versus home splits really even analytics? Teams have been paying attention to that for a long time, way before advanced stats ever came along.
He told all this in interviews before the playoffs when he was making his rotation.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 26, 2019 7:07:39 GMT -5
lol, do you have some proof that's how it happened?
Because I'd be willing to bet Snitker did the opposite and went with his veteran presents over rookies gut and pushed Soroka back for that reason.
Why would he ignore analytics for two full seasons then finally care when the playoffs start?
And are road splits versus home splits really even analytics? Teams have been paying attention to that for a long time, way before advanced stats ever came along.
He told all this in interviews before the playoffs when he was making his rotation. Ok but again saying a guy pitches better on the road isn’t really using advanced stats, we could tell that was the case without looking at any stats at all. Based on every managerial decision he’s ever made, he’s old school and I’m sure wanted the veteran presents over the rookie, and using the splits was an easy way to not put Soroka down or make him feel bad that he was only going to get one game.
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Cheaters2
Low A Farmhand
Is really CheatersRus
All Seeing
Posts: 762
Likes: 55
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Post by Cheaters2 on Nov 26, 2019 17:11:08 GMT -5
He told all this in interviews before the playoffs when he was making his rotation. Ok but again saying a guy pitches better on the road isn’t really using advanced stats, we could tell that was the case without looking at any stats at all. Based on every managerial decision he’s ever made, he’s old school and I’m sure wanted the veteran presents over the rookie, and using the splits was an easy way to not put Soroka down or make him feel bad that he was only going to get one game. that's simply wrong an old-school manager would have went off the eye test and simply said Mike gives us a better chance of winning he's our best he's pitching game 1 but numbers no matter which you use is Analytics so when you look at a guy's numbers on the road and at home and base your decision on those numbers you're using Analytics and again people in the front office told him it would be best to start Mike in game 3 that decision was made purely based on numbers
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 26, 2019 17:15:42 GMT -5
Ok but again saying a guy pitches better on the road isn’t really using advanced stats, we could tell that was the case without looking at any stats at all. Based on every managerial decision he’s ever made, he’s old school and I’m sure wanted the veteran presents over the rookie, and using the splits was an easy way to not put Soroka down or make him feel bad that he was only going to get one game. that's simply wrong an old-school manager would have went off the eye test and simply said Mike gives us a better chance of winning he's our best he's pitching game 1 but numbers no matter which you use is Analytics so when you look at a guy's numbers on the road and at home and base your decision on those numbers you're using Analytics and again people in the front office told him it would be best to start Mike in game 3 that decision was made purely based on numbers Actually, an old school manager would have said, “Keuchel has a lot of playoff experience, and he’s a veteran. He’s starting Game 1.”
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 26, 2019 18:31:48 GMT -5
that's simply wrong an old-school manager would have went off the eye test and simply said Mike gives us a better chance of winning he's our best he's pitching game 1 but numbers no matter which you use is Analytics so when you look at a guy's numbers on the road and at home and base your decision on those numbers you're using Analytics and again people in the front office told him it would be best to start Mike in game 3 that decision was made purely based on numbers Actually, an old school manager would have said, “Keuchel has a lot of playoff experience, and he’s a veteran. He’s starting Game 1.” Yeah this.
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Cheaters2
Low A Farmhand
Is really CheatersRus
All Seeing
Posts: 762
Likes: 55
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Post by Cheaters2 on Nov 26, 2019 23:39:41 GMT -5
that's simply wrong an old-school manager would have went off the eye test and simply said Mike gives us a better chance of winning he's our best he's pitching game 1 but numbers no matter which you use is Analytics so when you look at a guy's numbers on the road and at home and base your decision on those numbers you're using Analytics and again people in the front office told him it would be best to start Mike in game 3 that decision was made purely based on numbers Actually, an old school manager would have said, “Keuchel has a lot of playoff experience, and he’s a veteran. He’s starting Game 1.” truth be told old school would have went with hot hand and that was Folty.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 27, 2019 0:17:20 GMT -5
Actually, an old school manager would have said, “Keuchel has a lot of playoff experience, and he’s a veteran. He’s starting Game 1.” truth be told old school would have went with hot hand and that was Folty. No way, Folty’s streak doesn’t overtake veteran presence. That’s just a fact and you know it. Let’s be real here.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 27, 2019 1:50:56 GMT -5
truth be told old school would have went with hot hand and that was Folty. No way, Folty’s streak doesn’t overtake veteran presence. That’s just a fact and you know it. Let’s be real here. Agreed. Especially to Snitker.
Here's a new thought too--if one was going to use analytics to set up our rotation in the playoffs this year, this is how it would have been done:
Game 1--Soroka Game 2--Keuchel Game 3- Folty Game 4-_Soroka Game 5--Keuchel
In my mind Snitker tried to win that series in 3 games, and I don't think that's ever a good idea. We were much better than the Cardinals offensively, but they're pitching had been the best in baseball after the All Star game.
The bottom line to arranging the rotation the way I just did is that you would have Soroka pitching game 4 on the road, where he was better, and you'd have Keuchel pitching game 5 at home where he was much better this year. When we talk about Soroka's home numbers, they weren't horrible. Considering how weak the Cardinals lineup was, I would have fully expected to win 2 of the first 3 games, then have the pitching advantage for the last two games (going by stats).
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Nov 27, 2019 2:24:04 GMT -5
No way, Folty’s streak doesn’t overtake veteran presence. That’s just a fact and you know it. Let’s be real here. Agreed. Especially to Snitker.
Here's a new thought too--if one was going to use analytics to set up our rotation in the playoffs this year, this is how it would have been done:
Game 1--Soroka Game 2--Keuchel Game 3- Folty Game 4-_Soroka Game 5--Keuchel
In my mind Snitker tried to win that series in 3 games, and I don't think that's ever a good idea. We were much better than the Cardinals offensively, but they're pitching had been the best in baseball after the All Star game.
The bottom line to arranging the rotation the way I just did is that you would have Soroka pitching game 4 on the road, where he was better, and you'd have Keuchel pitching game 5 at home where he was much better this year. When we talk about Soroka's home numbers, they weren't horrible. Considering how weak the Cardinals lineup was, I would have fully expected to win 2 of the first 3 games, then have the pitching advantage for the last two games (going by stats).
Only issue with that is Soroka would have pitched game 4 with only 3 days rest. If I were Snit, I would have had this rotation... Soroka Keuchel Folty Fried Soroka Then I would have had Keuchel for Game 1 of the NLCS on full days rest.
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Post by Fumbduckery on Nov 27, 2019 2:49:20 GMT -5
Agreed. Especially to Snitker.
Here's a new thought too--if one was going to use analytics to set up our rotation in the playoffs this year, this is how it would have been done:
Game 1--Soroka Game 2--Keuchel Game 3- Folty Game 4-_Soroka Game 5--Keuchel
In my mind Snitker tried to win that series in 3 games, and I don't think that's ever a good idea. We were much better than the Cardinals offensively, but they're pitching had been the best in baseball after the All Star game.
The bottom line to arranging the rotation the way I just did is that you would have Soroka pitching game 4 on the road, where he was better, and you'd have Keuchel pitching game 5 at home where he was much better this year. When we talk about Soroka's home numbers, they weren't horrible. Considering how weak the Cardinals lineup was, I would have fully expected to win 2 of the first 3 games, then have the pitching advantage for the last two games (going by stats).
Only issue with that is Soroka would have pitched game 4 with only 3 days rest. If I were Snit, I would have had this rotation... Soroka Keuchel Folty Fried Soroka Then I would have had Keuchel for Game 1 of the NLCS on full days rest. I could have lived with that three days rest for Soroka and then had him ready for game 1 of the NLCS.
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Post by littlebeast1 on Nov 27, 2019 10:20:42 GMT -5
No way, Folty’s streak doesn’t overtake veteran presence. That’s just a fact and you know it. Let’s be real here. Agreed. Especially to Snitker.
Here's a new thought too--if one was going to use analytics to set up our rotation in the playoffs this year, this is how it would have been done:
Game 1--Soroka Game 2--Keuchel Game 3- Folty Game 4-_Soroka Game 5--Keuchel
In my mind Snitker tried to win that series in 3 games, and I don't think that's ever a good idea. We were much better than the Cardinals offensively, but they're pitching had been the best in baseball after the All Star game.
The bottom line to arranging the rotation the way I just did is that you would have Soroka pitching game 4 on the road, where he was better, and you'd have Keuchel pitching game 5 at home where he was much better this year. When we talk about Soroka's home numbers, they weren't horrible. Considering how weak the Cardinals lineup was, I would have fully expected to win 2 of the first 3 games, then have the pitching advantage for the last two games (going by stats).
In hindsight, your rotation does make a lot of sense. And while I can't say with 100% accuracy because I am not Snit, I really believe his thought process was
Veteran experience Hot Hand Rookie who dominated on the road but who had struggled a little down the stretch (fatigue?) Veteran Hot Hand
It blew up in his face, but not because the starting pitching was horrendous (game five aside) but because of other circumstances (injuries, bad pen pitching, bad hitting with RISP). Snit has to take some blame because we lost and Soroka only pitched once, but I don't find it hard to understand why he set the rotation as he did. That's why I'm not throwing my hands up in the air and saying, "we are never going to win with this guy as our manager"!
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Nov 27, 2019 10:56:47 GMT -5
Do you think that rotation decision is the only reason why people may doubt Snitker?
Agree or not, people mentioned things all season long that made them doubt Snitker so I wouldn't try and reduce that argument down to this one thing.
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