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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 13:10:53 GMT -5
Obviously Freddie Freeman is a more valuable player than Ender can ever hope to be
But I can see some computer trade machine overvaluing a player who is making 5 mil a yr as trade bait because there are plenty of teams for whatever reason, either cannot, won't or due to a rebuild situation be able to incorporate a great player or pitcher making 20 plus mil a yr or more
Adding a 5 or 6 mil a yr player can be done by nearly anyone
I doubt any GM is using the trade machine and when moves are made, there is more than the cold sabermetric analysis of the players discussed
And business wise, if a team is in a rebuild, why trade for a 20 or even in some cases a 30 something million a yr pitcher. How much trade value does a Chris Sale or De Grom have when most teams either cannot or it makes no business sense to trade for guys like that
And, though it happens teams do not like to eat big time money
Why do you think that Zach Grienke cannot be traded, its more than the on field performance.
So while the trade machine might not be total BS, its doubtful its a serious tool actual real world people use.
Its more for hypothetical fan discussion -- for arm chair GM's on message boards
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2019 13:21:36 GMT -5
Sounds to me like this is better proof of WAR being a pretty meaningless stat than it is of anything else, especially at the present time when more than ever, offense is king. Paying Hamilton $5 million mostly just means whoever is paying him that is stupid. There's tons of guys who can replace him for a fraction of that. He's awful. He's always been awful. No one has ever specifically defined who that proverbial replacement level player is. And some bench players are move valuable in the role they are in than some poor everyday players. Its an abstract formula created by some numbers nerds who had nothing better to do. That is why I remain pretty much a traditionalist though glad OBP is now paid attention to, it was overlooked for too long - WAR will go the way of the mood rings and pet rocks of fad history As for Hamilton, he would have fit in well in the 70's and 80's for the speed alone - not so much in today's game with the SB not in vogue anymore |
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jul 4, 2019 16:24:58 GMT -5
I'm not really understanding what your point is. You're saying the numbers don't add up, but the do add up, you just don't understand how the numbers can be where they are. I find it funny that you use the term "real value", but it seems you're not really grasping what "real value" is. This is evident by the fact that you are placing offensive contribution above defensive contribution. In WAR, you don't get bonus points for being better offensively, and you don't get docked points for being "all glove, no bat". Value is value is value. You may not like that defense is valued equally to offense, but under WAR (Which is the main stat used to derive value) defense scores just like offense. What WAR shows is that if you're a GM and you want an defensively elite CFer, who's on a very affordable contract, and you don't care about offensive production, then Inciarte is a really good get. For years, teams have signed guys like this, and they still are. The Royals are paying Billy Hamilton, and his 61 wRC+, $5.25 million (With an additional $7.5 million, if they pick up his option) to be their starting CFer. There are teams that would trade for a guy like that. Of course, it'd be better if Inciarte was hitting, at least, league average, but his value isn't a fugazi because he doesn't. You really like telling people they don't understand, don't you? I understand what I want to understand, and any wonky calculation that values Ender at almost twice what it values Freddie is not worth understanding because quite frankly, it is bullshit. This game is still played on the field, and these days a lot of people over analyze the hell out of it just because the technology is available to do just that. I think a lot of these people like and understand computers a helluva lot more than they like and understand baseball. WAR is a perfect example in many cases. Jason Heyward is, or at least was, a "WAR darling" in spite of the fact that he's an average player. I'm sure he loves WAR though, since he is grossly overpaid because of it. Just a couple of things. I don't think anything says Ender is twice as valuable as Freddie. What it says is Ender is a better value than Freddie. It's important to understand that distinction. Back on the WAR thing again with Haywood. This is a misrepresentation. When Haywood had a really high WAR, his offense wasn't as bad as people made out. Everyone exaggerated his deficiencies because he wasn't hitting 30 HR's like they thought he should. When his offense did really fall off, his WAR fell with it. This whole Haywood/WAR topic being brought up anytime anyone wants to poopoo advanced metrics really just needs to die. |
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Post by PABraveFan on Jul 5, 2019 14:57:46 GMT -5
Is it possible that they add Ender to the roster and go with 1 less reliever. Then, as needed due to usage or other reasons, jockey Sobotka, Parsons, Dayton, Webb, Newk, Minter, Touki, and even Wilson to the minors. Not sure about Folty's or Gauseman's status at this time either. In any case we don't need a decision until 6/21.
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jul 5, 2019 15:05:17 GMT -5
I've thought about that, but I'm not so sure we can handle one less reliever when our starters only go about 5.
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jul 18, 2019 1:57:34 GMT -5
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 18, 2019 9:18:48 GMT -5
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Post by littlebeast1 on Jul 18, 2019 10:38:00 GMT -5
We really need Ender to tear it up between when he is activated and July 31st. It is the 2nd half so there is hope! |
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jul 18, 2019 11:09:55 GMT -5
We really need Ender to tear it up between when he is activated and July 31st. It is the 2nd half so there is hope! The problem is “second half” is a misnomer with Ender, it's actually just August and September. Drats! |
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