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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2019 8:33:02 GMT -5
Moved implies we will do something with him. We won't really be doing that as he will be a FA. My bad, but should have said (JD) will move on for sure He should get a one year deal somewhere but sure he will get a pay cut He is doing enough to where he should not be scrapping to get a minor league deal next yr assuming he and the agent are reasonable and do not wait and wait and wind up on the outside looking in. Can't wait to see next yrs infield with Riley at third and the other 3 regulars - even Freddie is not really an old guy so the IF will be young and strong
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Post by brady2705 on Jun 21, 2019 16:20:55 GMT -5
I've seen/heard lots of suggestions that Ender's lengthy IL stint, and upcoming rehab assignment, is to help market him for trade before 31 July. Make sure he's fully healthy, and then see if you can get some solid performance out of him in AAA.
I understand that logic. I was expecting Riley's performance to drop off, which it did, but to his credit he made relatively quick adjustments and his performance is back on the upswing. To me, that's a hugely positive sign -- lots of guys start hot, but it's the ability to adjust and break out of a slump that I think defines an MLB caliber talent from the AAAA guys.
With that, Ender doesn't really have a place on our 25-man roster. Joyce has been the perfect bench bat. Culbertson is a mainstay. We need 2 catchers. I could understand sending Camargo down to attempt to get his bat going -- hopefully that means when he inevitably comes back up, he gets more playing time. I think Snit has done a horrible job of managing his bench's playing time -- I get riding the hot-hands for now, but getting 3-4 starts per week on a rotation is really what I was expecting for Johan. At this stage, Camargo has gone ice cold, and is only getting sparse at-bats per week, and only when a game has gone out of reach.
So ... Coming full circle ... What happens to Ender, and what does that have to do with my post title? Well ... Inevitably Acuna will need a day off. From injury, to snap a funk, or just for proper rest ... In that case, who plays CF ... Culberson? Certainly not Markakis or Riley. Are we going to bank on Ronald staying 100% healthy until September rosters expand and we call up more guys who can play CF?
Strong as our bench is, I have a sincere concern that with only one player on the 25 capable of playing CF, we are somewhat playing with fire. And thus, I believe by default Ender needs to have some spot on our 25-man roster until either Duvall or Pache are called up. That, to me, means we can't seriously consider trading him this year.
What does everyone else think?
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 21, 2019 17:45:10 GMT -5
BUMP
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Post by TheCoronaManCometh on Jun 21, 2019 18:30:50 GMT -5
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 21, 2019 18:39:51 GMT -5
I think Brady disagrees.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 19:09:35 GMT -5
As good as JD has been as of late, I still think he will get a one or maybe at best a two yr deal somewhere when he hits FA again
At 34 in 2020, why would you give him more than one or two yrs
How much, well, depends on his final numbers, cannot see another team giving him 23 mil per. The market changes and FA has not been nice to older players in recent yrs
For this yr JD is our man and for sure our guys are shaking out as one of the contenders cannot see that changing at the end of July
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 19:12:27 GMT -5
Going back to the original tread what is going on with Ender -- any updates or maybe a minor league rehab assignment
Really do not need to do anything with him till he is totally right
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 21, 2019 19:13:52 GMT -5
I agree with everything you said....and Snitker actually said the words himself during spring training that Camargo would start 3-4 times per week. I understand Nick was hot in April and Johan wasn't, but there came a point where Nick hit .220 over a 5-6 week period, as did Donaldson. The bench management during that period was ridiculous.
I'm not a fan of Ender's offensive game at all, to put it mildly, and I never have been. I can't argue with the point that we can't expect Acuna to play literally every single game. I don't know what the answer is, I'm glad I'm not the guy who has to make that decision. Personally I'd work a trade involving Ender where we got back a guy who could play CF and be serviceable enough to do it once every 2-3 weeks, or step in and not kill us if Acuna got hurt. That's the route I'd go. I'd like to package Ender and Duvall and a prospect like Demeritte or another mid prospect for a good reliever or two and a a backup CFer. A reliever like Watson.
And Camargo's slashes in June are .438/.438/.625/1.063
And that's in 16 frigging ABs and here we are on the 21st day of the month.
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Post by brady2705 on Jun 21, 2019 19:33:13 GMT -5
But if we get a CF back in a trade, where does he go? Do we go with a 5 man bench instead of a 4 man? Do we send down Johan, or release Joyce?
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Post by brady2705 on Jun 21, 2019 19:36:41 GMT -5
My fault, totally forgot this exists. Should we converge the other tread into this one?
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Post by Hart's Middle Finger on Jun 21, 2019 19:43:12 GMT -5
Merged
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 21, 2019 19:48:37 GMT -5
You blankety blanking blanking blank, I just typed out a long answer to Brady's last post and when I tried to post it said the tread was gone! Terrible timing! Now I have to rethink a shorter version, dammit!
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Post by Fumbduckery on Jun 21, 2019 19:54:55 GMT -5
But if we get a CF back in a trade, where does he go? Do we go with a 5 man bench instead of a 4 man? Do we send down Johan, or release Joyce? Like you suggested, we've talked about it here lately, and several people said go with a shorter pen. That would be more feasible if we did trade Ender and got a good bullpen arm in return. We'd also have to consider we might need to go with a 6 man rotation to limit innings for Soroka and Fried, so that complicates things with trying to go shorter with the pen.
If Camargo gets sent down I'll blow a gasket, but at this point if he's going to continue to rot on the bench he'd be better off going to AAA and playing every day. That would be a terrible injustice to the young man, but it's already a slap in his face to be rotting like he is.
I'd lean towards the shorter pen, Joyce is great against righties. But I have a feeling what's going to actually happen is we'll just bring Ender back and Camargo will be sent to AAA and that will be the end of it. Things have a way of working out, he'd probably go to AAA and start raking and somebody will get hurt and he'd be back up with the big club.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2019 20:05:21 GMT -5
I don't want to release Joyce, he does fine in that role and with bench players, you need guys who embrace and understand that role
Its not as easy to put together a bench than it seems cause its a mindset of acceptance of that role - not everybody can or wants to do that
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Post by brady2705 on Jun 21, 2019 20:33:07 GMT -5
But if we get a CF back in a trade, where does he go? Do we go with a 5 man bench instead of a 4 man? Do we send down Johan, or release Joyce? Like you suggested, we've talked about it here lately, and several people said go with a shorter pen. That would be more feasible if we did trade Ender and got a good bullpen arm in return. We'd also have to consider we might need to go with a 6 man rotation to limit innings for Soroka and Fried, so that complicates things with trying to go shorter with the pen.
If Camargo gets sent down I'll blow a gasket, but at this point if he's going to continue to rot on the bench he'd be better off going to AAA and playing every day. That would be a terrible injustice to the young man, but it's already a slap in his face to be rotting like he is.
I'd lean towards the shorter pen, Joyce is great against righties. But I have a feeling what's going to actually happen is we'll just bring Ender back and Camargo will be sent to AAA and that will be the end of it. Things have a way of working out, he'd probably go to AAA and start raking and somebody will get hurt and he'd be back up with the big club.
Good suggestions all. I think, if I'm leaning one way or the other, I drop Camargo to AAA for 2-3 weeks and bring in Inciarte. Hope the regular playing time gets Camargo going and back to form. If a trade presents itself involving Inciarte, then I agree and we jump on it. At some point, in July or August, we'll want to bring Johan back up and ensure we also have a CF on the bench, giving us a 7-man pen. We can mix/match the 7-man pen for a month by shuffling arms through AAA, and then by September we can add arms to the bullpen. 7 man pen was once the standard, but now we're lucky to get 6IPs out of our starters, which makes it hard to roll with less than 8.
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